This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, purge it.
Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.
When will my nomination be reviewed?
This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below).
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.
If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.
To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:
Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:
Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.
If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.
Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed.
Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting.
Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed.
Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by KrinkleBot.
Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated).
Hook should make sense grammatically.
Try to vary subject matters within each prep area.
Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set.
Steps to add a hook to prep
In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote.
In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to.
Wanna skip all this fuss? Install WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :)
For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on DYK Queue.
Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number.
Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot.
Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end.
Check that there's a bold link to the article.
If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template.
Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the {{DYKmake}} and {{DYKnom}} templates) at the bottom
Check your work in the prep's Preview mode.
At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake.
Save the Prep page.
Closing the DYK nomination page
At the upper left
Change {{DYKsubpage to {{subst:DYKsubpage
Change |passed= to |passed=yes
At the bottom
Just above the line containing
}}<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.-->
insert a new, separate line containing one of the following:
To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
Also paste the same thing into the edit summary.
Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like }}, at the top or bottom.
Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.
How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue[edit]
Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
View the edit history for that page
Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.
How to move a nomination subpage to a new name[edit]
Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.
Reviewer needed to do a full review, including of the proposed replacement hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Long enough, new enough. No neutrality problems found, no copyright issues found, and I've taken the liberty of unclassifying this as a stub because it clearly isn't one. The Times of India is considered to have a reliability between no consensus and generally unreliable per WP:RSP, and so I'd like to see a better source for any hook.--Launchballer 07:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Very good. Now let's see it in the article and I'll approve this.--Launchballer 22:50, 21 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry for the scrappiness, @Launchballer:. It has been a long time since my last DYK. The reference was already in the article, and I have now reordered it to reference the hook at the right place. Thanks. JupitusSmart 14:07, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jupitus Smart, Launchballer, and AirshipJungleman29: my apologies for yanking the rug out, but something came up that I thought merited more discussion. Secretlondon, at WP:ERRORS, suggested that the hook reads like ad copy – given that the source is mainly a parroting of the director's Instagram post, I'm inclined towards it having merit. What do y'all think? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The content also appeared in Cinemaexpress, for which I'm satisfied with Jupitus' rationale. At the time I approved this, it was only sourced to Cinemaexpress but I see that the Times of India made its way back in. I've taken it back out.--Launchballer 09:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron:, I don't think it would be easy to befuddle multiple newspapers including the Times of India and Indian Express, without them actually viewing the studio. There are multiple photographs of the studio which can be found with a search and this can also be referenced from this Kaumudi article - [1]. JupitusSmart 05:37, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720: they're Secretlondon's as much as mine, I'd be interested to see them workshop a hook. Or do we just feel that the hook is fine as-is? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 05:40, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that six years after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her mother and a judge friend both committed suicide? Source: But on Aug. 10, 2022, Connie Land committed suicide with a single bullet ending her misery. Then, on Jan. 20, Andress-Tobiasson, 55, joined her friend in death when she shot herself at her $2 million Vegas mansion. [2]
ALT1: ... that after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her family publicized the unsolved case on digital billboards? Source: Since the killings, the Land family has spoken to local and national reporters, and even placed Sydney’s portrait on electronic billboards in the Las Vegas area. [3]
ALT2: ... that a Las Vegas judge who was forced to resign over her involvement in the investigation of the shootings of Sydney Land and Nehemiah Kauffman later committed suicide? Source: A former Las Vegas judge who resigned from her elected position in 2021 to settle a state ethics and discipline investigation has died, according to authorities. The Clark County coroner’s office confirmed Saturday that Melanie Andress Tobiasson, 55, died Friday from a gunshot wound. The coroner ruled the death a suicide, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported. [4]
Comment: Although I submitted 3 hooks, I support the promotion of either ALT0 or ALT2, being that they appear to be more compelling than ALT1. On second thought, I think each hook has its merits, so I have no preference. StonyBrookbabble 14:15, 21 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article meets new requirements at the time of nomination and is long enough. Citation is verifiable and I see no glaring errors in the article. Good work! I recommend ALT0, but suggest changing the details a bit to specify that the judge was related to the case (which makes the events more shocking): "that six years after Sydney Land was shot to death together with her boyfriend, her mother and a judge involved with the case both committed suicide?" Panini!•🥪 19:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for that review Panini! Based on your input, may I propose the following for ALT0, with slight stylistic changes (feel free to provide any additional feedback): ... that six years after Sydney Land and her boyfriend were shot to death, both her mother and a judge friend who got involved in the investigation committed suicide? StonyBrookbabble 08:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Approve the modified alt. Kudos for tackling such a subject! Panini!•🥪 19:58, 22 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron, Panini!, and AirshipJungleman29: per the feedback at errors, I went ahead and excised the deprecated sources from the article, and modified the text to reflect existing sources. If you examine the above diff, you will see that I also added some information, such as regarding the manner of death, and related events that occurred on October 8. Regarding problems raised with the hook, may I suggest the following modification to ALT0, which is also under the character limit: ... that six years after Sydney Land and her boyfriend were shot to death, both her mother and a judge friend who took an interest in the investigation were found dead of gunshot wounds? StonyBrookbabble 03:00, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StonyBrook: I would venture that the Toronto Sun is, as a sensationalist tabloid, also not a reliable source. I'd also be concered about whether the incident is notable if it doesn't have significant non-local coverage in RSes, but one thing at a time. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:41, 11 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
While I am not from Canada, it is not at all clear to me that TS should be characterized as a tabloid instead of simply as a broadsheet. I don't think it would be correct to place it in the same basket as the British tabloids. After reading Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 265 § Is Toronto Sun a reliable source?, I don't see any indication there that TS cannot be used for regular news reporting. There is probably a good reason why TS is not listed at WP:RSP, and not even mentioned at WP:THESUN for that matter. And most of the facts presented in this source have been reported in other sources cited in the article. StonyBrookbabble 05:26, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: Does the above satisfy your concerns? If not, what else needs to be done to get this approved? Z1720 (talk) 03:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720: I would disagree with StonyBrook – the lead of Toronto Sun describes it as a tabloid, reading the source article and front page of the Sun also point towards it being tabloid journalism. It is part of The Sun media network, and I don't see a reason to reject the null hypothesis that it's just as unreliable as the rest of them. On a direction-of-the-project level of thinking, I certainly think that crime should be one of the last places where we indulge the media's desire for "if it bleeds, it leads". So for me, I don't see how I could approve this with the paper still in the refs section. If that's not doable, then i'm happy to let consensus decide if the article can pass as is. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 06:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: If you are concerned that the source should not be used on Wikipedia in circumstances like this, please open a new thread on WP:RSN so others can comment and consensus can be reached. If there is a concern about the direction of the project and if Wikipedia should have an article like this, please nominate this article to WP:AfD so editors can discuss its inclusion on the project. My hope is to get movement towards a resolution for this hook. Z1720 (talk) 18:34, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720: I don't think the burden is on me here – multiple RSN discussions have resulted in a consensus, listed at WP:THESUN, that this publication and its sisters are generally unreliable. The discussion above was about whether there might be a reasonable case to one-off IAR exempt, and I don't think there is at all. If the nominator wants to attempt to get more eyes on this discussion at RSN or WT:DYK, try and get a consensus to override me, I'm more than happy for that to happen. But when nominations stall over valid objections to content that are not fixed, I tend to feel that we should fail them. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:30, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As far as I am aware, the Toronto Sun is a separate entity from The Sun (United Kingdom), owned by different organisations, and have no editorial relationship with each other. Thus, I do not think WP:THESUN applies here. I looked through the WP:RSN archives and found discussion points about how the Toronto Sun is reliable for news information, but not editorial politics, although the consensus was not unanimous. My goal is to move this nomination along as either approved or rejected while avoiding WP:SUPERVOTE concerns: one way to do so is to get a consensus on RSN about this, but this is not the only way. Would you be willing to get additional opinions on the Toronto Sun's use in this article? Z1720 (talk) 02:41, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was just about to correct myself, but you beat me to the punch – yeah, The Toronto Sun isn't related, but it is still basically a publisher of tabloid journalism. I would still assert that it's not reliable, but a consensus isn't required to fail a nomination, it's required to approve one. I am of course happy for as many people to provide as many opinions as they would wish, and if I'm in the minority, that's all well and good. But if there isn't consensus to run it, I don't think it's reasonable to let it sit forever or pass it anyway. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't see anything here nor at the previous discussion demonstrating that there is no consensus for this article to be posted. The deprecated source that was originally at the heart of the problem has been removed long ago. I have argued at the top of this thread that The Toronto Sun is not listed as deprecated or even questionable at WP:RSP, and this point seems to have been conceded here. Even so, the haggling over TS seems totally beside the point. The article in its current form has no less than 18 other unique sources which verify the main points of the topic, and everything else seems to be technically WP and DYK compliant. StonyBrookbabble 03:31, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll concede that it's not explicitly listed, but again, this is tabloid reporting on a crime that occured in a different country. I am incredibly skeptical of reliability of, if not the entire publication (its local reporting seems decent?), then definitely this piece. Besides, WP:DYKG requires that cited sources are reliable, and this piece is certainly cited no small number of times. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:26, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
After reading the source again, I see that it mostly summarizes the main points of everything else that can be found in the other references. Since there are no earth-shattering revelations made there as far as I can tell, it can be removed with hardly a ripple caused to the article content. But since it involves more time that could be spent elsewhere, I'd rather be sure this step is actually necessary. StonyBrookbabble 04:56, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StonyBrook: I am not sure about TS as a source. If it can be removed I suggest doing it to remove concern and out of caution. I want to point out that I was familiar with the case of SL's murder but I did not know of her mother's death. I was surprised to read about her mother's death because it is somewhat unusual for women to commit suicide with a handgun. It looks like you really spent some time researching this article. Bruxton (talk) 20:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seasons Greetings Bruxton, and thanks for the kind words. CL's and the judge's recent deaths intrigued me as well, which is also what got me interested in writing this article in the first place. It wouldn't be too much trouble for me to remove the TS refs. While I defer to your and other's judgment on this, I would just like to point out that since I didn't use this questionable source, which has even more updated info along with verification of the judge's quote about suicide, I want to be absolutely sure that the apparently non-deprecated TS really needs to go. StonyBrookbabble 20:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not a review, but you might want to link the target article from your proposed hook. Schwede66 19:13, 24 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Still not a review, but I've been wondering where "Die" in the title comes from. It's a definite article in German, but the Dutch don't use that. I'm wondering whether your reading of this German source somehow convinced you that the title should be Die Kuranten. Because if that's the case, well that's the source of your error / misunderstanding. Schwede66 21:18, 24 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Schwede66:, thank you for your comment, I have linked the target article. To your second point, I didn't name or create the article. The Die of the title is the Yiddish definite plural article, although it is more commonly written today as di (Yiddish: די). Given that it's a Yiddish-language paper that seems appropriate, particularly different that the title is Kuranten (a plural noun) and that there are two forms of the publication, one published on Tuesdays and one on Fridays. It is also a title that has been used for the publication in English-language print since, per Google Books, 1985, if not earlier. I don't see how this is pertinent to the scope of the DYK review but I hope this clarifies your misunderstanding. Kazamzam (talk) 01:23, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. The target article is supposed to be linked in bold font. And given that it's a newspaper, it should be in italics, too, as per MOS:NAMESANDTITLES. Good to have clarified that "Die" is a definite article in Yiddish. It's not strictly necessary as part of the DYK review to sort out naming issues, but in a roundabout way, it is. When an article is on the main page, it gets thousands of eyes on it and if it's wrong, somebody will no doubt come along and fix it. Firstly, there's WP:DEFINITE and that suggests that "Die" shouldn't be part of the title. Chances are that someone will move the article while it's on the main page, and that would trigger WP:MPNOREDIRECT. Hence the item would turn up at WP:ERRORS, as only admins can fix redirects on the main page. As such, it's best to ensure that the title is correct before we put something up via DYK. With that in mind, do you believe that the article should be moved?
And given that I'm commenting on all sorts of issues, I might as well do a proper review of this nomination. Schwede66 01:39, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't think it needs to be changed given there are exceptions to WP:DEFINITE and one of these is The New York Times. Since the guideline explicitly mentions that newspapers are an exception to this, I think the current title is okay. I will double check in the archival material to confirm and get back to you. Thank you for your other suggestions and for being thorough. Kazamzam (talk) 01:50, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's absolutely not a problem to leave it the way it is. In that case, I will move-protect it for the time that it's on the main page – problem solved. Schwede66 02:40, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Expansion started yesterday and the article has gone from a short paragraph to a lot of prose; it's plenty long enough. The language is neutral. Referencing is not sufficient; I have tagged all paragraphs that are uncited but there is more content that ought to be referenced apart from those three instances. Earwig is clean. There is one prior DYK credit, hence a QPQ is not required. I cannot sign off on the hook; the source talks about the oldest known Yiddish newspaper in the world whereas the hook says the oldest Jewish newspaper – those are different things. The hook is easy to fix; referencing will require a bit more work. Schwede66 02:37, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for your review. I have added references for each of your tags but I agree there could be more - the majority of the information came from the Pach thesis (2014) and I didn't want to over-cite the same source but there are limited references because it's such a niche topic. I will continue working on this throughout the week.
The question of 'oldest Yiddish' vs. 'oldest Jewish' is contentious, but I think the sentence I have moved to the lede and the accompanying references make an argument for why this is the case, as opposed to Gazeta de Amsterdam. That is the oldest Yiddish publication is, as far as I have seen, undisputed in the scholarly literature and I am fine updating the hook to reflex that as more neutral language that would not be disputed. Kazamzam (talk) 14:27, 25 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The way we deal with DYK hooks is that we propose alternatives as ALTx. If you’ve got a different wording in mind, please write it down as ALT1. Don’t amend hooks previously proposed. Schwede66 15:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kazamzam: Do you have any ALT hooks you would like to propose below? Z1720 (talk) 19:56, 8 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kazamzam: has not responded to the ping above, even though they have been editing on Wikipedia. I am marking this as rejected unless they or another editor wishes to proceed with this nomination and propose additional hooks below. Z1720 (talk) 17:31, 29 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720:: thank you for your message. I would like to keep the hook as the original 'oldest Jewish newspaper' as I feel that this is supported by the references currently in the article. Is it possible to keep the submission with the original hook, particularly if I include more references?
I will say that, while I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner to your original ping, I was rather put off from continuing with this nomination by the comments above which were quite condescending. It seemed to imply that I didn't know basic information (i.e. the correct definite article) about the topic that I was proposing for a DYK despite having done hours of research and reading on it which the reviewer, if I may presume, has not; the mistaken suggestion about WP:DEFINITE, etc. My first experience with DYK for Wagner Natural Area was very positive and the reviewer was really helpful, so it was surprising to get these comments that did not seem intended to improve the article at all. Best, Kazamzam (talk) 18:32, 31 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kazamzam: I have removed the rejected symbol above. I won't comment on the Die concern, but I think the intention was to figure out if it should be included or not. I think the Jewish/Yiddish concern is that the informaiton from the hook does not match the source used to verify the information: This needs to be addressed before this hook can be approved. If any wording is changed from the hook, please do not change the proposed hook above but instead post a new suggestion below as "ALT1" (this helps reviewers follow the discussion. Feel free to ping me if you have any questions. Z1720 (talk) 19:26, 31 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
When you refer to the comments above which were quite condescending, you can only mean my initial queries. I have looked over that once more and fail to see why that could be perceived as condescending. I asked questions, gave a reason why I asked those questions (I note that in the German source that I quoted, it says "Die Kuranten", i.e. the definite article was not part of the newspaper's name as it wasn't included in italics), and you replied with a good explanation. Problem solved. Isn't that a totally normal part of editor interaction? Schwede66 01:38, 1 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The very first sentence of the article states that it is a Yiddish-language periodical, not a German or Dutch one. You assumed that I had an "error/misunderstanding" and had been mistakenly convinced by one article, rather than the possibility that you were not familiar with this subject. And that's a surprising assumption to make, given that a) you seem to be unfamiliar with Yiddish definite articles, otherwise the grammar of Die in the title would have immediately be clear and b) I effectively rewrote this article from scratch which would require me to know basic information like the name. If you had asked why the article was Die, rather than assuming right away that I had a misunderstanding about the most basic part of an article I spent hours writing, I would have gladly explained that without any hard feelings. That would have been a totally normal part of editor interaction. Kazamzam (talk) 04:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This needs a different reviewer. I won't be signing off on the "oldest Jewish newspaper" claim as I stated above. Somebody else might be happy with the sources. I asked for an ALT hook but nothing's been forthcoming. Schwede66 20:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello @Kazamzam: - I have asked for quote as I cannot see behind paywall. Please ask on my talk page if you would like someone with absolutely no knowledge of the subject to take a fresh look at this. Chidgk1 (talk) 12:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello @Chidgk1:, I'm not sure the format in which you would like me to quote the source that is behind a paywall. I have accessed it through my institution's library and have it as a PDF. I could try adding it to Internet Archive but it's a few paragraphs of text. Do you have a suggestion for how to incorporate it into the body of the article and not look shoehorned in or awkward? Kazamzam (talk) 22:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't think we need the whole PDF. Suggest you use Visual editor and fill in the "quote" parameter on the cite Chidgk1 (talk) 12:17, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That wasn't my question. I'm asking a) where in the article do I include that source, i.e. starting a new section so that it doesn't interrupt the flow of the article and b) how would you recommend making the reference, which is from a copyrighted material, available when it is behind a paywall for just about everyone. I was able to access it via my institution's library but I doubt it would be legal for me to upload that to Internet Archive because it's not fair use. Kazamzam (talk) 17:58, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think that's not a very interesting DYK hook. I would rather write the article for the Gazetta di Amsterdam, which more experts consider the oldest Jewish newspaper and then submit that for this hook about the oldest Jewish newspaper instead. I am trying to incorporate Chidgk1's comment about providing a quote from a hard to find source but I'll get back to you on that.Kazamzam (talk) 22:13, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Multiple issues here. Many sentences lack citations, and I can't approve this article while there's a maintenance template on it. And I'm not approving 'first Jewish newspaper' either, for the reasons above, though 'first Yiddish-language newspaper' would be interesting.--Launchballer 14:31, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Launchballer: Thank you for your comment. I have added references to a number of sentences (more to come) and added a section to give weight to the claim of the oldest Jewish newspaper. As I mentioned above, the reference that has the maintenance template is problematic because it's been impossible for me to find an open-source version to support that claim. However I have added another reference to that specific sentence and the section at the bottom of the page contains additional citations. Please let me know what you think and I will continue working on this. Thank you, Kazamzam (talk) 17:56, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kazamzam: There are still maintenance templates and unsourced sections. Can we have some progress on this please?--Launchballer 11:07, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kazamzam has been editing Wikipedia this week but has not edited this article. I have left a note on Kazamzam's talk page, but if they do not respond in a couple of days I think this should be closed as abandoned (unless someone else wants to take over the nomination). Z1720 (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the follow-up. I have added citations to the unsourced statements tagged and removed the maintenance tags. Please let me know if any other corrections are necessary. It's my first time at my family home in 4 years so responses may be delayed. Thank you, Kazamzam (talk) 13:40, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Michael Lewis accused the author of a competing book of "trying to torpedo" Going Infinite, comparing the rival author to accused fraudster Sam Bankman-Fried? Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/06/business/michael-lewis-going-infinite.html In a new book about the crypto bubble, Zeke Faux, a Bloomberg investigative reporter, recounts watching Mr. Lewis “fawning” over Mr. Bankman-Fried during an onstage interview at the Crypto Bahamas conference in 2022. (Reviewers, including at this paper, have compared the two books, giving the advantage to Mr. Faux.) When I mentioned this anecdote over lunch, Mr. Lewis leaned forward. “Here you have a person who’s written a book, and he’s trying to torpedo a rival book before it comes out?” he said. “That’s shocking. Talk about corrupt! So who do I think is more skeevy, Sam or him? I’d have to think about that.”
@Coretheapple: Thank you for nominating! Would a link to Number Go Up in the hook be a good idea? Or is it not worth it as it’s just a stub? Thriley (talk) 21:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Good idea. I didn't notice that stub. Added. Coretheapple (talk) 22:52, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, it's 198 now. Thanks for taking care of it. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 14:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've added myself as second author based upon my writing most of the current text. This is the first time I've nominated an article I've expanded that was recently authored by someone else, so kindly advise if I've handled that correctly. Coretheapple (talk) 17:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Everything was handled correctly. You nominated the article less than a week after it was created. Thriley (talk) 04:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I wasn't clear, as I think this may have been the first time I ever nominated a new article that I hadn't created myself. Coretheapple (talk) 16:35, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
New enough, long enough. Hook's still quite long, I'd end it at "Going Infinite", and I probably would link that stub. No maintenance templates found and QPQ done. There are an awful lot of quotes here; fine in reception sections but I think you can put the Synopsis section in Wikivoice.--Launchballer 09:51, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Thriley and Coretheapple: I still think there are too many quotes in the Synopsis section. Can this be addressed?--Launchballer 11:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: Article was moved to mainspace within 7 days of nomination. 1800 characters of prose. Earwig picked up 1% of copyright violation, making it unlikely. QPQ done. I'm not entirely sure about the image used; it's an unofficial creation using a free image of a firefighter, but it does illustrate an example. The first paragraph is mostly unsourced, unless the one source at the end of the paragraph is supposed to encompass it. ALT1 is a better hook due to it being more specific but I wonder if you can create another hook that is less subjective. lullabying (talk) 18:38, 9 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: Hello, thanks for your review. Regarding the first paragraph, it is all cited from the source at the end. If you find the image to be inappropriate, it isn't necessary and I have no issue with not including it. As for a better hook, how does this sound:
Thanks for notifying me. What makes Pet Age a reliable source? lullabying (talk) 20:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: The the website says that Pet Age is a company focusing on the animal "supply, merchandising, and service market" and that it "explores current trends", so my assumption would be that it is aware of market trends. Since the majority of paper calendars seem to feature animals, I assume that they are aware of their main competition (being beefcake calendars) and their impact on the market. Considering the fact that the Australian calendar features firefigthers as well as animals, it falls within their purview as well. Di (they-them) (talk) 09:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for responding. I would change the hook to "Australian Firefighters Calendar" because the article is talking about a specific calendar being the world's most popular calendar. lullabying (talk) 03:58, 30 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: Is this hook ready to be approved? If not, what is still needed? Z1720 (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry for the delay! I knew I was forgetting something. I think this should be fine and good to go. lullabying (talk) 01:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Di, I have to agree with lullabying that PetAge is not a reliable source. Companies as institutions can't be subject-matter experts, they can only be reliable in the general case if they are reputable or if there is evidence that their publications have strong, professional editorial controls and fact-checking. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:03, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, apologies for the delay. Since PetAge is not reliable enough for the DYK, I would like to propose we use ALT1 instead. Di (they-them) (talk) 01:02, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Di (they-them), as PetAge isn't reliable enough for DYK, the sentence it supports should be deleted from the article, along with its citation. lullabying, Narutolovehinata5, is there any reason this should not proceed with ALT1? If not, can this be safely given a tick? Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:00, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 as is may need to be changed as who knows if calendars will still be popular in Taiwan in thr future (the guidelines discourage hooks whose truthfulness or accuracy may change in the future), but a reworded version would be fine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:08, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: Both hooks are sourced and mildly interesting but not compelling; I would like to wait for other eyes before promoting. Go ahead an add an image, if you'd like. — AjaxSmack 23:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Healy performing in Chile in 2017 I have added a reference for the only release not covered by WP:REPCITE and added an image to the article; I may do some more work on this in the morning.--Launchballer 23:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Good point about WP:REPCITE; I suppose if they're all save one mentioned in the article text and the list does not claim to be exhaustive, then that should suffice. — AjaxSmack 00:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
WP:REPCITE is giving me indigestion, especially since the discography is a new section. However, since the Spotify citation has all of her releases listed here and the discography is sourced in the article text, it looks fine. All other things look good to go. With the added image, hook ALT0 is more compelling, but since we have no idea if it'll be in the DYK, I'd still like to wait for more input on the hook. — AjaxSmack 14:52, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If it's of any use, an early version of this nom had "... that aged 15, Georgia Twinn went viral on TikTok after lip-synching to a song named after a pornographic actress?" as ALT1, although I suspect that may go against the bit of WP:DYKINT that says "excessively sensational or gratuitous hooks should be rejected".--Launchballer 11:07, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT2: ... that the TikTok success of "Hit or Miss" caused Georgia Twinn to develop hypervigilance? (this one's wikilinked under "more cautious and aware of the types of people that there are online", but the word does not appear)
ALT3: ... that prior to going viral on TikTok for "Hit or Miss" aged fifteen, Georgia Twinn wanted to become a forensic scientist?
Comment not review this article was nominated for deletion on 21 October here, so per WP:DYKCOMPLETE the nomination needs to go on hold until the deletion discussion is concluded. TSventon (talk) 09:32, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The result of the deletion nomination was "keep with a caveat" so this can come off hold again. TSventon (talk) 00:22, 29 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Iskandar323: I moved a citation to support the hook under "In Zionist and Israeli statehood narratives". It is tough article to maintain neutrality but I think the article is as neutral as it can be. The QPQ is done and the article is new enough and long enough, being nominated 7 days after creation. The article is referenced and uses the correct inline citations. I find ALT1 is the most interesting. I do not find evidence of plagiarism. I am unsure if the statement in ALT1 needs to be attributed "According to some historians and academics". Article appears stable now, and the only edits I see for the last two days are fussing with minor details. Lightburst (talk) 23:02, 3 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment this article still has significant neutrality and POV issues; it makes extensive use of less-neutral language (the first proposed hook is an example) and provides none of the balancing context of Nakba, itself already by definition a particular POV of 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight. If the article is stable it may be because people are tired. – SJ + 03:12, 4 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
as long as there's a dispute tag on the article, it's on hold; if the article hedges to "some historians and academics", the hook should too. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: - the POV tag has been removed by another editor, and before that I solicited for reliable sources to prove POV issues but I haven't heard any response. I think reviewer-approved ALT1 is uncontroversial enough to not require hedging. starship.paint (RUN) 03:36, 24 November 2023 (UTC)I donReply[reply]
Comment this article was recently discussed in NPOV noticeboard Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard/Archive_107#Nakba_denial and I personally feel the concerns were not handled. terms 'Nakba' and 'Israeli Independence' represent two competing narratives of the same historical events surrounding the founding of the State of Israel in 1948. Each term encapsulates deeply held beliefs and interpretations that are important to different communities. 'Nakba'—Arabic for 'catastrophe'—is the lens through which many Palestinians view the mass displacement and loss that accompanied the 1948 war. Conversely, 'Israeli Independence' symbolizes a monumental achievement for the Jewish people, marking the establishment of a sovereign state after centuries of persecution.
Labeling the Israeli perspective as "Nakba Denial" unequivocally violates Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View (WP:NPOV) policy. This term "denial" is not merely descriptive; it's prescriptive, dictating how the narrative should be interpreted rather than offering a balanced viewpoint. By embedding an accusation within the label itself, the discourse is preemptively skewed, stifling any potential for nuanced discussion. The term 'Nakba Denial' not only accuses one side of refusing to recognize a historical event or human suffering but also inherently delegitimizes any competing narratives. Once such a term is introduced into an encyclopedic context, it doesn't merely tilt the balance; it obliterates it. Readers are not presented with a spectrum of perspectives to form their own conclusions; instead, they are led down a pre-defined path that reaffirms existing biases. Marokwitz (talk) 18:57, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Marokwitz: I do not think your opinions have not been validated by the various community discussions - including an AfD. We have a variety of "denial" articles including Denial of atrocities against Indigenous peoples and Denial of the genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia. And of course Holocaust denial. You say that the word Nakba signifies a deeply held belief and interpretation: but it is in the same way the word "Holocaust" is a deeply held belief and interpretation of events. I am in no way trying to compare or imply that the holocaust is the same as Nakba - just comparing the words as both convey catastrophe. The RS supports the term "Nakba denial" and the article is notable and encyclopedic based on community discussions. I think that we are left with an WP:IDONTLIKEIT argument so we should proceed: the article has met our requirements for DYK. Lightburst (talk) 17:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Marokwitz: on 21 November [5], I invited you on to present specific reliable sources explicitly discussing Nakba denial that are missing from the article or present examples of misrepresentation of reliable sources already in the article. You did not respond. Again, I invite you to do so. Otherwise, it seems that your opposition is not based in reliable sources. starship.paint (RUN) 01:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I believe there is some confusion. My objection isn't based on the lack of sources, but rather on the inherently and fundamentally non-neutral framing of the topic, which precludes the inclusion of sources that don't use the term 'denial' to describe the phenomenon. This results in unavoidable bias in the selection of sources. Marokwitz (talk) 07:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If sources do not even mention the term 'denial', even with a view to dismissing the notion, then they are clearly not engaging with the substance of the topic. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See WP:NDESC. The term "denial" is judgmental, delegitimizing other viewpoints that may be equally valid. Consequently, the framing of the topic in this manner is not neutral, leading to a biased selection of sources that view Israel's narrative as a form of 'denial' of historical facts. Marokwitz (talk) 08:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Marokwitz: - Lightburst has mentioned the existence of multiple "denial" article titles on Wikipedia, starting with Holocaust denial, not mentioned but also existing is Denial of Kurds by Turkey, Denial of the virgin birth of Jesus, Temple denial, Holodomor denial, Bosnian genocide denial (Good Article), and Armenian genocide denial (Featured Article). It seems that the term "denial", while judgmental, is not automatically disqualifying for articles. On the other hand, if you have reliable sources that say something along the lines of "we have analysed the narrative of the Nakba and it is inaccurate or distorted", that may also remedy the supposed biased selection. Are there such sources? starship.paint (RUN) 12:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Denial of the virgin birth of Jesus is a good example. It should be renamed to Debate Over the Virgin Birth of Jesus for neutrality. The current name is akin to naming the Atheism article "Denial of God's Existence." Regarding series of genocide denial articles, specifically Holocaust Denial, both terms involve a rejection of historical narratives. However, Holocaust denial is a WP:FRINGE and widely criminalized position, as it rejects a globally acknowledged genocide. In contrast, "Nakba denial" primarily refers to contesting the intentions or responsible party behind the Palestinian exodus (not its actual existence), a debate that is part of the broader Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This debate is not between a fringe position and a globally accepted one but has two sides actively debated by reliable sources and respectable academics. According to WP:NPOV, neutrality requires that articles fairly represent all significant viewpoints published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in those sources. However, this is made impossible by the current naming. The same is not true for "Holocaust denial" since, per the same policy, "Views held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views." Reliable sources and academics denying the Holocaust fall into that category. Marokwitz (talk) 06:29, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Marokwitz: - again, you are bringing a lot of assertions to the table (which may be true, or false), but no sources to back your claim regarding the Nakba. I've repeatedly asked you for sources, but nothing. starship.paint (RUN) 00:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I an not sure why sources are needed here as I'm making nothing more than obvious assertion that Nakba denial is judgmental term against a particular non-fringe viewpoint. For example, Michael R. Fischbach defines Nakba denial as a "Nakba counternarrative", and see also "Golani, Motti; Manna, Adel (2011). Two Sides of the Coin: Independence and Nakba, 1948: Two Narratives of the 1948 War and its Outcome." The point is that Nakba and the Israeli national narrative are two counternarratives, and labeling one as "Nakba denial" creates a POV fork of Nakba that discourages or prevents inclusions of reliable sources that don't use judgmental language. Marokwitz (talk) 08:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
CommentALT0 is unacceptably non-neutral. ALT2 is objectively true, and good. Zanahary (talk) 07:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Iskandar323, Alalch E., Freedom4U, and Starship.paint: What is the status of this neutrality tag? If this topic is too contentious, should we withdraw this nomination and re-nominate it for DYK if it achieves GA status? Z1720 (talk) 18:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Iskandar323: There's an orange NPOV banner at the top of the "In Israeli historiography" section. Z1720 (talk) 20:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah ok, had missed the lingering level-3 section one. Iskandar323 (talk) 22:34, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Overall: An interesting article covering the long history of this musical establishment in a balanced way (more coverage of recent history, and something on current operations, would be great, but do not interfere in the DYK consideration). New / submitted in good time, quite long enough, well-sourced but no plagiarism found. Hook fact checked - the whole hook-related section is cited to one good-length article, in Italian, which I have checked. The hook is a little long, but allowing for non-counting of the bolded link and {pictured}, passes. It could be abbreviated, if needed, by mentioning only the name, or the designation "art museum" for the alternative home, but I see why both are desired. The picture is valid and properly used. Best of luck! SeoR (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@4meter4 and SeoR: hook looks good, nice work! Unless I'm hugely mistaken (and I very well could be), though, it seems that a large part of the article is sourced to an interim director of the conservatory, making the source non-independent of the article. If that's the case, the article does need a large restructuring. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:25, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh dear, that would be an issue, will study later today. It’s an institution of long standing so I’m sure it can be re-sourced if needed, but this would need work, yes. I will try to assess the degree of involvement of the mentioned person. Former staff are often good sources on such topics, but… SeoR (talk) 08:01, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don’t think there is a problem. If it were self published I would agree, but this is published in a monograph by an academic press and is probably the best published source on the school. The fact that it was written by someone associated with the school lends credibility in this case. Further, the content is in no way controversial so I don’t see how this would be incongruent with our our policies at WP:NIS and further I would argue WP:BESTSOURCES applies as this is the most detailed and most recent publication and the most substantial scholarly work anywhere on the school by an academic publication. If editors are concerned, you could bring it to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard but I sincerely doubt anyone will have a problem with using a scholarly published monograph written by a subject matter expert that is not self-published. 4meter4 (talk) 09:20, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The points made above have much merit, especially as the article does not lean solely on the source piece under discussion. So, on the one hand, Professor Iovini was a long-serving staff member, who headed the School for 4 years. On the other hand, he moved on >5 years ago, and is a respected academic / musicologist independently of the Conservatory. I think his monograph is probably a valid source. (Professor at the University of Genoa, critic, engaged with "La Repubblica" and " Il Giornale della Musica", and on RAI radio and television. Director of the "Paganini Centre for Research and Teaching", author of multiple texts. Holder of the "International Luigi Illica Award" for his musicological studies.) Indeed a distinguished figure. And yes, it is material that none of the points are controversial. Maybe one reason the article is light on contemporary information is that the author of the primary source was looking back before his time of involvement. SeoR (talk) 19:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron: Have your concerns been resolved? If not, what needs to be done to get this approved? Z1720 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@4meter4 and Z1720: This is only kind of here or there, but is the publisher really independent of Genoa Conservatory? I'm not convinced, but I also can't be sure. Regardless, I'm okay with non-independent sources being used where necessary – I've used secondary non-independent sources myself – but I don't know that I could get behind the vast majority of the article resting on a non-independent source. Academia is much cosier with conflicts of interest than we are, so I'm not confident that this is more akin to any other monograph than it is to self-published. WP:NIS was written on the assumption that secondary independent RSes define the scope and framework of the article, and NISes fill in the blanks where necessary. That's not what I'm seeing here – the article is well-written, to be sure, but this structure doesn't quite sit right. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 06:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Theleekycauldron I know you are acting in good faith, but I think this is a misguided bureaucratic objection which doesn't serve the best interests of this article or wikipedia. There isn't really a verifiability problem here. The monograph is published by De Ferrari Editore which is a publishing house associated with the Genoa University Press and is a reliable academic publisher independent of the conservatory and not a vanity press. If I were submitting this to an academic review board for a PhD dissertation or journal article nobody would be raising their eyebrows at using a source like this in the context of a literature review; which is essentially the type of writing done on wikipedia (we summarize what sources say in published literature). Even if we were to consider this a self published source (which I don't), the writer is a subject matter expert and distinguished musicologist with a lengthy list of publications and would therefore pass the criteria for the use of WP:SELFPUBLISHED sources which states " Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications".
Further, it would be impossible to source the content in this article elsewhere with the other resources available online or at a library where I live, as the only other sources of quality (by that I mean detailed sources with big picture overviews published in scholarly writing) are all in Italian and offline and are out of print and would require physically going to a university/conservatory library in Italy to access them (if you can get permission). Unfortunately those sources are only available in snippet view in google books. Access is an important consideration. Lastly, I would strongly oppose removing the content as the result would be a horribly imbalanced article with large gaps in coverage, and strange sections with detailed accounts that lack context because the other sources tend to provide details over one particular person or time period in the school without providing a big picture overview and placing details into a larger context; or they give a very perfunctory overview of the school with large gaps. It would not be an accurate or well written article per WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. Again this is the WP:BESTSOURCE that is accessible on this topic. Not using it would be irresponsible and a bad editorial decision. I personally will not remove the source as it would result in a bad article. 4meter4 (talk) 18:48, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree with that evaluation. There is no reason to believe the facts from the expert should not be trusted. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the Vocalises by Jānis Ivanovs drew upon his childhood experiences as a refugee in World War I? Source: "But the impulse to draw from [Ivanovs'] memories came directly from 'Autumn Song' and the vocalises that followed. More specifically: as a refugee during the First World War, the very young Ivanovs ended up in Vitebsk and Smolensk, where he sang in church choirs as an alto before his voice broke, thus becoming acquainted with the liturgical compositions of the Russian composers Bortnyansky, Tchaikovsky, and Rachmaninoff. From these, presumably, come the resigned chromatic tones that make up half of the color palette of the vocalises." [6]
@Narutolovehinata5: Please bear with me. I'll be busy for the next day, but will return with a couple of new ALTs and possibly a little more new material on Saturday (PST). —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 06:24, 10 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Working on this now. Been held up, but I've not forgotten this DYK nom! —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 02:41, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for hanging in there. How about this?
ALT1 ... that the Vocalises by Jānis Ivanovs were said to express "a longing for humanity, away from dictatorship, [and] ideological directives" that characterized the Latvian zeitgeist of the 1960s and 1970s? Source: Ibid. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 21:29, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Full review needed now that requested new hook has been provided. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:49, 2 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Long enough, new enough. No copyright issues found, no maintenance templates found, no neutrality issues found. QPQ done. ALT1 is interesting but only just short enough, and that quote looks like it's been butchered to fit 200 characters (it actually says "a longing for humanity, away from dictatorship, ideological directives and unification"). I'd go so far as to end the hook at 'humanity'. In addition, the archive.ph screenshot saved the article as a picture, meaning the pdf doesn't actually work.--Launchballer 00:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Phoenotopia: Awakening's areas were designed around a color wheel in order to keep them distinct? Source: "we wanted every area to have a unique identity. Then the artist Anna had the idea to put the areas on a color wheel, and that way, we could see what color schemes we have yet to hit.""『Phoenotopia: Awakening』Long Interviewー！#3". Flyhigh Times. May 15, 2022. Retrieved October 31, 2023.
ALT1: ... that Phoenotopia: Awakening's areas were designed around a color wheel to keep them distinct?
"In order to" is at the top of the list of unnecessary words easily replaced by "to". Viriditas (talk) 08:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RagingPichu: Not a review, but there is a cn tag from before that needs to be resolved before this appears on the main page. I have also added some cn tags for other sentences that need citations. Please post below when these have been resolved. Z1720 (talk) 18:53, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the football refereeGamze Durmuş and her husband were together in charge at an official league match that became a historic event in the Turkish football? Source: "MHK, pazar günü TFF 1. Lig’de Ankaragücü ile Gençlerbirliği arasında oynanacak başkent derbisine hakem olarak Burak Pakkan’ı atarken, karşılaşmanın dördüncü hakemi ise eşi Gamze Durmuş Pakkan oldu. Böylece ikili, Türk futbol tarihine karı-koca maç yönetecek ilk hakem ekibi olarak adlarını yazdırdı." (in Turkish)[7]
ALT1: ... that the Turkish FIFA-listed refereeGamze Durmuş holds a PhD title in sport management? Source: "FIFA kokartlı hakemimiz Gamze Durmuş Pakkan ..." (in Turkish)[8], "Gamze Durmuş Gazi University · sport management phD" [9]
Long enough, new enough. No neutrality issues found, no maintenance issues found; AGF on Turkish sources, and QPQ done. ALT0 is more interesting that ALT1, but is somewhat wordy, and 'a historic event' [sic] seems rather nebulous. I'd suggest words to the effect of - and correct me if this is not accurate - "that Gamze Durmuş and her husband were the first married couple to officiate a TFF First League match?".--Launchballer 00:21, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Launchballer: Thanks a lot for your review and comment. Please check following hook:
... that A Field Guide to Otherkin is the first book entirely about otherkin, people who consider themselves animals or mythological creatures? Source: Mara-McKay, Nico (6 February 2008). "A Field Guide to Otherkin, by Lupa". Spiral Nature Magazine. Retrieved 24 October 2023.
ALT1: ... that the publication of A Field Guide to Otherkin sparked scholarly interest in otherkin, people who consider themselves animals or mythological creatures? Source: Cusack, Carole M (2017). "Spirituality and self-realisation as 'other-than-human': the Otherkin and Therianthropy communities". In Cusack, Carole M; Kosnáč, Pavol (eds.). Fiction, Invention and Hyper-reality. Abingdon, United Kingdom: Routledge. p. 40. ISBN978-1-4724-6302-9.
ALT2: ... that A Field Guide to Otherkin is the first non-fiction book about people who consider themselves animals or mythological creatures? Source: as ALT0
Comment: I'm not totally sure how much context is needed here, so I've leaned towards more. Usually I'm a less-context partisan, but the idea itself is unfamiliar enough that it might make or break it. (For similar reasons, I'm not linking "otherkin".) ALT2 is an intentionally evasive phrasing; after further consideration, I think I like it best, though arguably it's less "obviously true" (you can do anthropological work about things that can be understood that way and don't use the otherkin framework). I've also considered some hooks from the work itself, but they become trickier and more compounded when adding context.
ALT2 is the most interesting hook. Where is the DYK/Wikipedia guideline about a book synopsis not being entirely cited? Flibirigit (talk) 02:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Flibirigit: it's in Wikipedia:No original research. For example, WP:PSTS: "a primary source may be used only to make descriptive claims, the accuracy of which is verifiable by a reasonable, educated person without specialist knowledge". This applies to articles which contain summaries of books and films (this is repeated in MOS:PLOTSOURCE and WP:FILMPLOT). A Field Guide to Otherkin is the primary source, which is already cited in the infobox. Back in the early days, many editors would make a note in the reference section indicating that the entire article relies on a specific edition, but over time, the infobox came to replace that style. Since there appears to be a lot of confusion on this point, with various people claiming it contradicts WP:V, I've proposed that WP:V should be updated to reflect our best practice, but I have never pursued it. If you would like to do so, please be my guest. I think Vaticidalprophet's use of a synopsis without citations—except for quotations—is house style and acceptable. Again, there appears to be a lot of people on Wikipedia who aren't aware of this, and because it comes up so often, I think something needs to be done to make it more explicit to newcomers and old editors alike. Viriditas (talk) 23:56, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, I knew the guideline was somewhere. Will do a review for this nomination, perhaps by tomorrow. Flibirigit (talk) 00:08, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RoySmith: is the use of a "first" here in ALT2 an issue for you? ("A Field Guide to Otherkin is the first non-fiction book about people who consider themselves animals or mythological creatures?") Viriditas (talk) 00:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, that's the kind of "first" we really should avoid. The hook doesn't even say what the source says: "the first full length treatment" got turned into "the first non-fiction book", which isn't the same thing. Maybe go with ALT1, which avoids both those problems? RoySmith(talk) 00:07, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bit busy ATM, but I came to the thought ALT0 was the best hook sometime after the original nomination. I can write at more length about how this is fairly definitively the first non-fiction book on the subject (the traditional rejoinder to "first X" is the possibility of an extremely obscure unnoticed prior example; this was published by a tiny press, sold a couple hundred or so copies in its entire print period, has a bibliography comprising all known prior works on the topic, and is universally considered the 'first X' by all sources) when I have the time. Vaticidalprophet 10:33, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seems like a bit more work will be done before a full review. Flibirigit (talk) 15:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Vaticidalprophet: Is this ready for review? (For what it's worth, I find the second 'otherkin' in ALT1 recursive.)--Launchballer 00:24, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a comment: Isn't killing people the point of an airstrike? We can get better hookiness by mentioning that civilians were killed. Bremps... 19:33, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Bremps: some airstrikes are intended to damage structure without necessarily killing people. I agree with your suggestion, I didn't mention civilians in the hook as I felt that mentioning civilians might cause some to oppose the nom.VRtalk 04:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: War often kills people. My personal opinion is that ALT0 fails the interestingness criterion. It shouldn’t be that difficult to come up with more hooks. Viriditas (talk) 20:05, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Long enough, new enough. No maintenance templates found, no neutrality issues found, no valid copyright concerns found. QPQ done. I agree that ALT0 is not interesting; might be worth proposing a hook regarding Bolivia cutting diplomatic ties.--Launchballer 00:30, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: since writing ALT0 I have turned this into a double nomination, so unless something is wrong with the other hooks, that one should not be chosen.
... that Koyomi Araragi's narrations in Monogatari light novels and subsequent anime series led to his voice actor Hiroshi Kamiya to read all books to understand the character? Source: [1]
QPQ: - Not done Overall: Article was nominated within first 7 days of 5x expansion. Article is at least 1,500 characters of prose and is long enough. Wording is neutral but some sections are not sourced; are you placing sources after paragraphs? Earwig picked up 47.1% copyright violation, making plagiarism "likely." I think it's because some sections that cite interviews are worded too closely to the original. The hook is sourced but it doesn't seem particularly interesting... lots of actors end up reading the source material of something they're working on eventually so it doesn't seem unique. Can you suggest another ALT? QPQ is also not yet done. lullabying (talk) 08:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
I tried rewording the entire article. The only content that I kept similar to other articles is the role in novels. I can't think of a good hook.
ALT1: Koyomi Araragi's hair was reversed to symbolize his immature personality in the prequel novel Kizumonogatari?[2]Reply[reply]
Did you know Koyomi Araragi's thoughts are divided into three factions in the narrative of the Monogatari novels and anime?
Did you know Koyomi Araragi was not meant to start a romantic relationship with Senjougahara in the Monogatari series?[3]
Just a comment but I'd suggest not going with the last hook. It only appeals to anime fans and would require specialist knowledge of the Monogatari series. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: are you able to approve any of the ALTs above? If not, what needs to be done to get this article approved? Z1720 (talk) 01:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think ALT1 is fine, as ALT2 doesn't define what those factions are and ALT3 contains specialist knowledge. QPQ still needs to be done. lullabying (talk) 22:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, what makes Fandom Spot a reliable source? ScreenRant and CBR I can tentatively see, but not Fandom Spot. lullabying (talk) 22:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lullabying: Removed Fandom Spot. I confused it with Chris Beveridge's Fandompost. Not sure about other sources but if you find them useless I'll remove them. Still, I think it's the reviewer's choice to what is the most appropriate hook. Thanks for the feedback.Tintor2 (talk) 23:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Seems good to go. AGF on print sources. lullabying (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Tintor2 and Lullabying: per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, the article is required to be presentable before an appearance on the main page; however, it is full of spelling, puncutation, and grammar mistakes. The opening paragraph of the body, for example, is near-incomprehensible. Take the first sentence alone:
Across several changes in regards to the Monogatari light novels, Nisio Isin said that Araragi was meant to be a "stud" and abandon his desires and lose his propensity for love.tions with Araragi. "in regards to" is not English; how can you say something across several changes; what are the Monogatari light novels; "love.tions"; "and ... and"; what desires, what propensity for love; who is Nisio Isin??
I would suggest a substantial copyedit, either at WP:GOCE or from asking a copyeditor, because this article cannot be promoted in its current state. Alternatively, if you don't want to do that, this nomination will be rejected. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
Comment I tried rewriting most of the article and asked for a user to revise the prose. It'll take some days since these are some busy times though.Tintor2 (talk) 22:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that actress Junko Ikeuchi was known as the "Queen of TV Dramas" from the 1960s to the 1980s? Source: 別冊宝島2551 日本の女優 100人. Takarajimasha. 2017. p. 45.
ALT3: ... that actress Junko Ikeuchi joined the Shintoho film studio after being recruited from Mitsukoshi's Nihonbashi store, where she worked at the kimono section? Source: as above
ALT4: ... that actress Junko Ikeuchi joined the Shintoho film studio after their advertising staff noticed her working at Mitsukoshi's Nihonbashi store? Source: as above
ALT5: ... that actress Junko Ikeuchi joined the Shintoho film studio after their advertising staff noticed her working at Mitsukoshi? Source: as above
Overall: Looks pretty good. I'm going to AGF on the ja-wiki print source and that the 新撰芸能人物事典 that Kotobank uses is an RS. Most of the info in Kotobank is corroborated in other sources in the article, so consider double sourcing some more of the major facts to be safe. Its hard for me to judge some of the other sources (CINEMAS+ ?) for reliability, so it'd be nice to get other eyes here. Also, for English speakers, is it clear that "20% Actress" refers to the audience share of her shows? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AjaxSmack (talk • contribs) 00:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AjaxSmack: The ref attributes the nickname to high audience ratings, so it's safe to assume 20% refers to audience share. (Though the comment would be moot if a different hook is chosen.) Also, when using {{DYK checklist}}, keep in mind that a preference for other hooks doesn't count as a eligibility issue for the entire nomination, unlike for example none of a nom's hooks being valid, and instead belong in the overall section. ミラP@Miraclepine 22:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry. I have edited the template to reflect that. I think the sourcing has no problems, but would prefer a quick glance from another editor. — AjaxSmack 14:20, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is a well written article on an interesting painting. The article is new enough, long enough, cited throughout, and is in compliance with wikipedia's policies. The picture is in compliance with our policies and has a proper public domain rationale. The hook is verifiable but only interesting when displayed with the image. I would not promote this hook without featuring the picture. As such, an interesting alternative hook should probably be found in case the image itself is not selected by a promoter. I would suggest highlighting the painting's status as a national art treasure of India. The auction value might also be of interest if there would be a way to communicate ₹18.69 crore in a monetary value familiar to English language readers (such as dollars). I had to look it up and was shocked to find it sold for what would be over 2.2 million dollars. I have two other issues that need addressing. First, the citations should not be to chapters but to specific page numbers. When citing books, use the last name of the author a comma and then the page number. Second, there are far too many section sub-headings for an article with this little amount of prose. Per WP:DYKCOMPLETE we don't promote articles with "unexpanded headers". If a section contains less than a complete paragraph, then it should be merged/combined with another section. The "composition", "Interpretation", "Exhibits", "Ownership and sale", and "Legacy" sections are all too short to be stand alone sections at this point per DYKCOMPLETE. This issue could be solved through the addition of more content under each section or by merging sections to create expanded headers.4meter4 (talk) 15:24, 12 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. I will go through. Struck hook as it turns out she wasn't a cousin. Will think of a new one. Whispyhistory (talk) 20:56, 12 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 ... that the mother of The Little Girl in Blue(pictured) didn't think it was a good likeness of her daughter? (the reception section needs expanding with more analysis/criticism of the painting) Philafrenzy (talk) 22:50, 13 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you.. looks good... will do a bit more work on this. Whispyhistory (talk) 05:08, 14 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@4meter4: Is ALT1 ready to be approved? If not, what needs to be done to get this nomination approved? Z1720 (talk) 01:58, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Z1720 I am still waiting to hear back from Whispyhistory that work is finished, and that a second look is ready to proceed.4meter4 (talk) 02:33, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that composer and conductorWilliam Carter began a career as a professional organist at the age of nine? Source: "Mr. William Carter". The Musical Herald: 99. April 1, 1911. Found in the paragraph that begins "We will resume the story..." and in the sentence that starts "Master William Carter's own career..." This fact can also be found in other more contemporary sources requiring subscription access.
Thank you for an interesting article, on fine sources, offline and subscription sources accepted AGF. I am not happy with the hook. It gives him no place in time and location. Many started young, but he did extraordinary things later, such as the biggest Handel festival in Canada at the time, and the first choir of the Royal Albert Hall. If you prefer the early start aspect alone, I'll approve it, but think we might miss a chance. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article needs a little work, plus the hook is poorly written. As per WP:DYKTAG, the "Legacy" section of the articleis too short and should be expanded or merged into another section. Also, the article needs to be checked for grammar. I did a quick readthrough of the article and noticed a lot of missing commas. Speaking of commas, in the hook itself, a comma is needed after "1933" and not needed after "two young girls". The second half of the hook is also missing "the". The article mentions the subject was the "picture of the year", not "image of the year" (which should be in quotes inside the hook). It should also be noted who recognized it as the "picture of the year". My suggestion: " ... that in 1933, two young girls(pictured) were the "picture of the year" at the Paris Salon?" –Dream out loud (talk) 08:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you... maybe I am not the right person to create Sher-Gil paintings. I will re-look. The hook is is not right. Newspapers of 1933 do not mention it. Whispyhistory (talk) 15:26, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Who will if you don't? Just learn from the feedback, gradually improve your technique, and keep at it. (I will try to have a look later) Philafrenzy (talk) 19:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Great work, exactly what was required. The facts, biographical and otherwise, are essential, but it is the critical commentary that lifts an article about a creative work above a banal recitation of those facts. Indeed, where notability is in doubt (it wasn't here) it is that critical commentary that proves notability. I should know, but I am not certain of the status of the announcement of the picture or pictures of the year at the salon. Our article on it and its derivatives is surprisingly short. In any case it seems to be an award of the jury and here is a link to a 1941 report that states explicitly that the painting received that honour. Philafrenzy (talk) 00:23, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's not very clear what "split identity" means. It sounds like it's referring to her dissociative identity disorder or something else related to her mental health, but I see from reading the article that it has to do with Sher-Gil's ethnic and gender identity. I'm not sure "split identity" is the correct phrase and it's not used in the article. The article uses the phrase "divided identity", but I'm not sure that's appropriate either. –Dream out loud (talk) 07:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The article doesn't seem to actually state that his "sweet lyric voice of Italianate quality" referred to the Mozart roles specifically, so proposing a simplified and more accurate version of ALT0 (I've struck ALT0 due to that particular inaccuracy):
ALT0a ... that operatic tenor Ryland Davies's voice has been described as being "sweet" and having an "Italianate quality"?
Also proposing an alternative hook for the benefit of the reviewer:
ALT1 ... that operatic tenor Ryland Davies was a rugby player during his youth, earning a schoolboys' international cap for Wales against both England and Scotland?
I'll think about alternatives (too hungry before breakfast, and a lyric tenor died whose article is in sad shape: more urgent). I'm not striking your suggestions but we know each other for long enough for you to know that I believe a hook has to illustrate something that is unique to the subject, and that I like some hint at time and place. ALT0a could practically be said about all good lyric tenors. The key thing is that "Italienate" is unusual for Mozart, and while the exact wording is by one critic, that fact is given by at least one more, and provides a good idea of his sound. ALT1: to only speak of his sports seems unacceptable for his stance in music, still being used as a reference when speaking about later recordings, really one of the few big names names in tenor singing and teaching internationally one should know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not a review, just a comment: If I were you, I would make this an image hook. It's up to you, however. Bremps... 23:08, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the suggestion, Bremps. Originally, the image used in the article wasn't a public domain one, but someone else added the current PD option, so I've gone ahead and added that to the nomination above. SilverserenC 23:18, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
New enough, long enough, fine sourcing, no copyvio. The page cited does not verify the "temples" part of the hook. I'm sure "public temples" is true, but why not just say "public works and public buildings"? @Graearms: The most important thing I learned from looking up p. 46 in Robinson is that August created a new office for maintenance as distinct from new builds and major restorations. Perhaps there is a better hook there? Srnec (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Graearms: Can you address the above? I'll also leave a notification on your talk page so ensure that you see this. Z1720 (talk) 19:04, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Length and history verified for all three articles. The ALT references check out. For original hook, the reference for the Majestic song is an article about soccer that seems to have nothing to do with the subject ... did someone get confused while working on this? Daniel Case (talk) 05:33, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, that Tottenham v Arsenal article includes the sentence "Majestic is a DJ, producer and radio presenter who released his latest single, Time to Groove featuring Nono, at the end of April", and is used for nothing other than when it came out (i.e. where within the article I should put it); for the fact that it existed, either of the two subsequent references should suffice.--Launchballer 06:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Thomas Fritzsch, who has rediscovered music by Carl Friedrich Abel, a virtuoso on the viol, initiated a music festival in Köthen, where Abel was born 300 years ago? Source: several
Comment: best on the composer's birthday, 22 December, or close to it - I'll try one more hook which may be better on the day - the festival was in June, probably because nobody would go so shortly before Christmas ;)
I do think there's some potential in the original hook when it comes to interest, but it's a bit complicated and hard to read. Perhaps a simplified version that goes straight to the point might be better?
Thank you for the suggestions. I miss the rediscovery aspect for both the one who searched and the one found, It's the key thing for me, rather than some anniversary festival in some town which is just there to give time and place. Perhaps you can word that? The 300 years and Köthen will hopefully come with the catalogue. ALT1a also has an extra preposition. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Including the rediscovery part might overcomplicate the hook so I had to leave it out. Had there been a specific connection between the music he rediscovered and organizing the festival to promote the rediscovered music, that could have worked, but that does not seem to be the case. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:26, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I am sorry about my lack of English, and try harder. The rediscoveries are nor something to be included, but the main point of interest. If you can't include the town, and/or the festival, drop those. But we could also trust that readers are able to understand, perhaps even enjoy, sentences with complexities. We are not on the Simple English Wikipedia. We had already an article (with DYK) about pieces he rediscovered, ranked as a sensation. - Yes, some rediscoveries were presented at the festival (I was there), and some pieces performed the first time after his lifetime (no rediscoveries), but the focus was an overview, not a focus on those exclusively. He may have played something of the kind, I can look - next year. I couldn't stay until he played. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:29, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT2 ... that Thomas Fritzsch organized a festival featuring works of Carl Friedrich Abel's he rediscovered to commemorate Abel's 300th birth anniversary?
ALT2a ... that viol player Thomas Fritzsch organized a festival featuring works of Carl Friedrich Abel's he rediscovered to commemorate Abel's 300th birth anniversary?
ALT2b ... that Thomas Fritzsch organized a festival in Köthen featuring works of Carl Friedrich Abel's he rediscovered to commemorate the 300th anniversary of Abel's birth there?
I'm a bit skeptical that this particular angle will have broad appeal, but I'm leaving this here in an attempt to please and find a compromise. 12:31, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
What in "I can look next year" was unclear? Today is still Christmas in Germany, I have guests, and tomorrow I'll have more guests. There's RL, and no rush once we missed the birthday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@TulsaPoliticsFan: Technically your expansion isn't quite long enough, as DYK only counts prose text, not references, etc. Before you started your expansion, the article was at 1199 characters; you're now at 4286 characters. Do you think you could add more meaningful content and further expand the article to 5995 characters? Cielquiparle (talk) 05:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I was gonna DYK it as a new article I wrote on the 3rd, but I didn't think to try and do that until the 14th (never done one of these before and didn't realize it was within one week and not two weeks), so since I was outside the one week by 4 days I tried to do the expansion route. I'm not sure I can expand it much more, but I can try. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 16:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@TulsaPoliticsFan: No problem. I also found a case Board of County Commissioners of Logan County v. Harvey you can add to the article. Nathan121212 (talk) 13:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cielquiparle:@TulsaPoliticsFan: I believe the article has been 5x expanded now. I think we also need to establish whether she should be called Diehl or Harvey. A lot of sources refer to her as Harvey after her marriage. Nathan121212 (talk) 18:08, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nathan121212 and TulsaPoliticsFan: Well done, yes it's "long enough" of an expansion now! Could you also please de-orphan the article? We can't send it to the main page with an orange tag at the top. Let me know if you need pointers – but basically you just need to look for/think of other pages from which you can link to this article. Cielquiparle (talk) 19:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Fascinating topic. Article is new enough, long enough, with inline citations and neutrally written. Earwig score is high at 40.5% but this is mainly due to direct quotes which are correctly attributed; spot check suggests copyvio is not a problem (though it would be better if we could layer in additional sources in the passages where Benson's Oklahama Politics article is cited at length). Photo of Diehl was published in 1893 and is PD. Hooks check out and are interesting, but striking ALT0 because it is awfully wordy and confusing. Main outstanding issue is reliance on a master's thesis as a key source; per WP:RS (specifically WP:SCHOLARSHIP), Masters dissertations and theses are considered reliable only if they can be shown to have had significant scholarly influence. @TulsaPoliticsFan and Nathan121212: Would you be able to find alternate sources for the facts attributed to the 2023 master's thesis? For example, I took a quick look in Newspapers.com and found 46 articles for "Cora D. Harvey" that look promising. If you don't have access, you could ask for help at Women in Red to see if someone else could help. And/or look for other sources in Wikipedia Library (manual lookups in several individual databases) and Google Books. Cielquiparle (talk) 01:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@TulsaPoliticsFan: Can you please address the above? I see Bluemoonset has left a message on your talk page notifying you of the comments in this nom. Z1720 (talk) 19:07, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I did what I could on adding a few sources and trimming the reliance on the Master's thesis. There are only two citations to it left if anyone is able to help me find replacement sources for them. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 20:08, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Sasuke vs. Commander, one of SNK's earlier arcade games, was popular in Japan in 1981, but is better known today for its boss fights? Source: Game Machine (for popular) and Moyse (for boss fights)
... that Michael Kremer'sO-ring theory of economic development was inspired by the economist forgetting to purchase toilet paper for one of his educational non-profit's training sessions? Source: Monaghan, Peter (March 3, 2000). "Of Elephants and O-Rings: an Economist's Unusual Views on Ivory, Taxes, and Population". Chronicle of Higher Education. Retrieved November 20, 2023.
The article is long enough and was new enough at the time of the nomination and I did not detect any close paraphrasing. A QPQ has been provided. While she undoubtedly has had an impressive career, the currently-proposed hook probably only really appeals to a very specialist audience, opera fans who are familiar with the names involved.
I'd like to see more expansion to the article (right now it's just barely above the 1500 character mark), ideally about her personal life or interests if such information could be found. I would have proposed a hook myself had anything stood out, but the article is basically a filmography in prose form and doesn't really give any "hooky" information that would appeal to non-opera fans. If none can be found, then unfortunately the nomination could be failed for lack of a suitable hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:27, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I will happily expand but only next year, because of travel and company until then. I disagree with your evaluation of interestingness. The hook could stop at Bolshoi, and readers to whom that name means nothing would really be mislead. Everything else is extra. Any reader can understand that Gepopo is an allusion to Gestapo, and can get interested in why one person is both Venus and that character in the same piece. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a comment. Per WP:WATERMARK, the image's watermark should be removed (definitely before it hits the main page). Fortunately, it seems to be a simple crop job. Bremps... 01:43, 19 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the Thuy Ta café at the Xuân Hương Lake in Da Lat, Vietnam, originally functioned as a water sports clubhouse? Source: Guillaume, Xavier; Guillaume, Marie-Christine (2004). La Terre du Dragon – Tome I. Paris: Publibook. p. 115.
Reviewed:
Comment: This is my fifth nomination, last free QPQ article (unless it doesn't pass =]]]).
ALT2: ... that 555 Edgecombe Avenue, once named for a British soldier and occupied entirely by white Americans, later attracted many African-American celebrities? Source: Landmarks Preservation Commission 1993, pp. 5–6; Sheftell, Jason (February 27, 2009). "Classic Harlem". New York Daily News.
ALT3: ... that after workers at 555 Edgecombe Avenue went on strike, they claimed that Daddy Grace had his followers run the elevators? Source: "Strike at Swank 555 Edgecombe Avenue; Tenants Walk 13 Floors: Union Demands Include $3.50 Wage Increase Claim 'Daddy' Grace, Owner, Using Followers As Scabs; Pickets Still On Patrol". New York Amsterdam News. August 13, 1949. p. 1.
Comment: The original DYK nomination for this article failed because of an ongoing AfD discussion prompted by lack of references. I have since substantially expanded the number of high-quality references, so I think it's ready!
... that male Ameerega munduruku frogs are known to carry tadpoles on their back? Source: Neves, Matheus Oliveira; da Silva, Leandro Alves; Akieda, Paulo Sérgio; Cabrera, Rodrigo; Koroiva, Ricardo; Santana, Diego José (2017). "A new species of poison frog, genus Ameerega (Anura: Dendrobatidae), from the southern Amazonian rain forest". Salamandra. 53 (4): "We found one male (not collected) carry- ing nine tadpoles on its dorsum during the wet season (No- vember 2016)."
GA status verified, article long enough with full citation to reliable sourcing. No copyvio issues identified with sources and spot checking. Image is verified as main page compatible. Hook is verified and interesting. QPQ done. Looks good to go--Kevmin§ 17:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@AryKun and Kevmin: Our hook says "known to" but the article only refer to a single instance of a male carrying nine tadpoles on its back. I think we need to show that it is common for us to use this hook. Bruxton (talk) 21:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I dont see an issue with this hook, we have a verified instance of a male carrying tadpoles, which is known in other taxa.--Kevmin§ 14:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bruxton, the hook says "it is known to", and it is evidently known to do this. The 15ish specimens from the description were all collected on three distinct dates, it's understandable that they didn't have tons of observations of breeding in the species. AryKun (talk) 08:59, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
AryKun If they are truly "known to" we should have other examples or studies. I do not want the hook to end up at errors. Bruxton (talk) 14:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bruxton, the paper cited (which is linked in the article and freely readable) says "We found one male (not collected) carrying nine tadpoles on its dorsum during the wet season", so again, they are obviously known to. From Cambridge's definition for "known to", "If something or someone is known to be or do something, people know that it is true or happens", which this case fulfills. The hook isn't extrapolating to say it's common or anything, just that it is known to occur. AryKun (talk) 15:00, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
AryKun Thank you. I could be wrong so I will ask @RoySmith: about their thoughts on stating this claim in the hook. I am not sure if the case of this male carrying tadpoles is anecdotal. Bruxton (talk) 15:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It would be anecdotal ONLY if the paper stated something like "we have heard of this behavior but not seen". There is no way this would fall under the definition of "anecdotal".--Kevmin§ 15:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I agree that "anecdotal" is the wrong way to describe this, but I can also see the argument that one observation does not support a "... frogs are known to" statement, which would imply that it's been observed by more than one frog and/or it's typical behavior. I think we'd do better with:
... that a male Ameerega munduruku frog has been observed carrying tadpoles on their back?
Also the definition of anecdotal is (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research. Bruxton (talk) 15:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Alt 1 is the same as Alt0 with an unnecessary added level of handwaving. Also this account comes from a peer-reviewed research paper, thats kinda the definition of "research and facts".--Kevmin§ 16:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kevmin: We are trying to get a hook which will not be challenged as it goes along through DYK checks to the main page. I know it can be frustrating frustrating tweaking a hook but if it makes it to the main page and then get removed at errors - it will be more frustrating. Bruxton (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bruxton, I KNOW how DYK works after 450 noms in my tenure here. I also recognize when unneeded levels of FUD are bing placed on a hook. There is NO question that this behavioral practice exists in this frog species, unless you have sources that say otherwise?--Kevmin§ 16:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Exactly! The frog is known from specimens observed on three days, and it was observed doing this on one of these days. How many people do you think there are observing frog reproduction in the Amazon? This is also pretty common behaviour in frogs and so we have zero reason to doubt it; the researchers aren't exactly claiming that the frog was seen tap-dancing on it's front legs while dressed in a tutu. AryKun (talk) 17:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kevmin and AryKun: I am sorry that I have upset you both with my comments here. Another promotor will come along soon to sort out the nomination. Have a great weekend! Bruxton (talk) 18:07, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I realize that DYK has a lower bar than GA or FA, but we're still basically supposed to be saying what the sources say. If we have one report of one frog doing something, that's what we should say. If it's well known that this is typical behavior for this species, then there should be other reports of it and it should be trivial to add some additional references to those sources. RoySmith(talk) 21:50, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The species was described less then 8 years ago, so the assertion that other sources would document it ignores both the recent nature of the description and the slow pace of peer-review, its lucky that the article has images at this stage.--Kevmin§ 23:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't get the point you're making. We haven't studied it enough to have more than this one observation recorded in the literature, yet we're so sure this behavior is typical we shouldn't worry about stating it in wiki voice? You say There is NO question that this behavioral practice exists in this frog species. Based on what? WP:V is a core principle which can't be satisfied by having 450 previous DYK nominations. RoySmith(talk) 00:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There is no question based on the fact that it has been observed in the species. Cf ".. that humans are known to eat feces?". Perfectly accurate, since behaviour has been observed, regardless of whether it is common or not. I'm tired of arguing over this pointless issue, so whichever promoter passes by can do whatever they want to the hook honestly. AryKun (talk) 09:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
RoySmith You have not demonstrated that there is any data based reason to place extra restrictions on the verbiage of this hook. If you feel that the type description is faulty in its infarction, the onus is then on you to provide references that back that position. As of now the only argument that you have put forth falls squarely afoul of crystalballing ("but what if new data come out later").--Kevmin§ 19:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, what I'm saying is "the article should say what the sources say, and the hook should say what the article says. The source says "We found one male (not collected) carrying nine tadpoles on its dorsum". The article faithfully follows the source: "A male carrying nine tadpoles on its back has been observed". So that's what we should say in the hook. RoySmith(talk) 22:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
RoySmith, could you remove the question mark symbol? An alt hook has been suggested and none of us seem likely to change our opinions, so just let a fresh promoter decide whether the hook is okay or not. AryKun (talk) 15:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, I'm not going to remove it. If somebody else wants to approve it, they can and then it's on them to vouch for it being correct. That's the way it works. RoySmith(talk) 16:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You have yet to demonstrate that the alt hook is not accurate according to the CURRENT knowledge of the species. If your going to be obstinate about the subject, you need to show that something is missed, or your entire argument is boils down to you WP:Crystalballing.--Kevmin§ 17:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Kevmin I've come back to look at this again and I'm still unclear on what you want to see happen. At first it sounded like you were arguing against using ALT1 and insisting on using ALT0. It was on that basis that I added my query. Now it sounds like both you and AryKun are OK with ALT1. If that's the case, it sounds like we're all in agreement to go ahead with ALT1. I know I suggested it, but Bruxton officially proposed it, so I think it would only be a minor application of WP:IAR for me to approve it. If that's OK with both of you, I'll go ahead and strike ALT0 and approve ALT1. But I'd like to hear from both of you before I do that so we don't end up in another rabbit hole. RoySmith(talk) 16:06, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can't speak for Kevmin, but I am not okay with ALT1 in place of ALT0, I'm just tired of arguing the point. Just let another reviewer drop in and decide whether the original hook's okay. AryKun (talk) 17:17, 13 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The Ulama in Contemporary Islam: Custodians of Change
Comment: This is an interesting and complex topic. RoySmith often expresses concern about hooks that emphasize "firsts". I took a look at your source, and while it certainly supports the hook, I also took a look at two other reviews of the same book, none of which mention this "first". It might be helpful to consider alternate hooks because hooks that rely on "firsts" can often be problematic. I will await to hear from RoySmith to see if they think this hook is acceptable. Viriditas (talk) 22:39, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the ping. Yeah, we've been burned by "first"s before when it turns out somebody finds an even earlier example, so I think it's a good idea to just avoid them. Sometimes you can work around the issue with "said to be the first" type of language, but finding a better hook is often a better plan. RoySmith(talk) 22:59, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: The second hook is a bit provocative. The suggestion was not only based on quite overt sexism, but also on the fact that tests at the time couldn't detect physiological abnormalities. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 10:50, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that one British Army participant in 1967's Exercise Hell Tank, testing the use of helicopters against tanks, suggested the helicopters were 45-to-0 over the tanks? Source: 1st. the exact quote is "45-love"
Just a comment but I don't think linking helicopters and tanks is necessary here given they're common knowledge. Besides, ideally we'd want readers to learn about the tank and too many links may distract. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:07, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that French historian Patrice Gueniffey called Ridley Scott's 2023 film Napoleon a "very anti-French and very pro-British" rewrite of history? Source: “ And a biographer of Napoleon, Patrice Gueniffey in Le Point magazine, attacked the film as a "very anti-French and very pro-British" rewrite of history.” BBC
ALT1: ... that instead of paying homage to a visiting King Gustaf VI Adolf, Swedish headmaster Carl Segerståhl took his students swimming in a nearby lake? Source: Ibid.
... that the Humboldt Wagon Road passed through four California counties, but went nowhere near Humboldt County? Source: Chang, Anita L. "The Historical Geography of the Humboldt Wagon Road", Association of Northern California Records and Research, 1992, p. 19 (source not available online)Mark, Andy, "Stories of the Humboldt Wagon Road", The History Press, 2020, p. 89: [14]
ALT1: ... that stagecoaches on the Humboldt Wagon Road could make the 400-mile (640 km) trip from Chico, California to Ruby City, Idaho in under four days, for a $60 fare? Source: Mark, Andy, "Stories of the Humboldt Wagon Road", The History Press, 2020, p. 29 [15]
Interesting article on California history. New enough (nominated on same day article was moved into mainspace); long enough (7180 characters). Well sourced and neutral. Earwig doesn't return meaningful results because most sources are books. Citation of multiple sources suggests there isn't a copyvio problem and spot check doesn't seem to indicate close paraphrasing. AGF on book source for hook...but my main nit there is that if you're citing Chang for the first hook (ALT0), shouldn't you also be citing Chang within the article for that one sentence lacking a footnote at the moment? Or are you citing Chang for only part of that hook because the second half of the sentence is common sense inference? The problem with ALT1 is that it is too "complete" – all the facts you need are in the hook itself and there is no reason to click further to answer the question / read the article. It appears submitter is a new to DYK and is thus exempt from the QPQ review requirement, though for future reference WeirdNAnnoyed, it would be helpful to indicate in the Comment section (or Review section) whether it's your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th DYK submission. (After that, you have to do QPQ reviews along with the rest of us.) So really just need clarification on why the sentence in the article corresponding to the hook lacks a citation at the end. Cielquiparle (talk) 09:34, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for feedback, this is indeed my first nomination so I apologize for getting some details wrong. The reason I didn't add a citation at the end is common sense inference, as you say. This can be confirmed by consulting a map; the trail's westernmost point was about 100 miles from the nearest point in Humboldt County. I have a paper copy of the Chang reference and can upload an image of the relevant page if that would help with documentation. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 15:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@WeirdNAnnoyed: No need to apologize at all! This is just part of the standard DYK review and bulletproofing process which continues all the way until the day the DYK runs on the main page, when thousands of people read it (and are liable to poke holes if there are problems). (In other words, we're just trying to identify and resolve any potential issues sooner rather than later, because if it happens on the day, the hook could get pulled off the main page.) In this case, I see that there is a Humboldt County, Nevada that gave the road its name (for example per this source) ("One of those connections was to mines in Humboldt County in Nevada, which gave the local road its name."). Maybe you knew that, but I didn't when I initially read the hook and article, so now I feel that ALT0 is problematic. That said, we could try a version of the hook that plays on the fact that there are two Humboldt Counties, going for the final slot which is often reserved for "quirky" or playful hooks (and hence allows for a bit more leeway):
What do you think? (If we were going to use that, we would have to make a couple of changes in the article itself.) In any case, could you try to propose at least one more hook, so the promoter has a couple good ones to choose from? Cielquiparle (talk) 17:00, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cielquiparle:: Thanks for that source, I had not found that one. It disagrees with the reference I have, which specifically names the mining district, but since the county was probably named for the mines it's not a major discrepancy. I really like your hook! I have edited the text of the article to make it more compatible with your suggestion; please let me know what you think.
@WeirdNAnnoyed: I made further edits (and added a different source) to resolve the issue, as I actually don't see it as a discrepancy. I'm just not sure if ALT2 will be accepted, but I am pinging @Lightburst: to see if they might be able to assess whether the hook would work? (I can't approve my own hook anyway.) Cielquiparle (talk) 04:13, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@WeirdNAnnoyed and Cielquiparle: ALT2 is confounding and does provoke interest. I instantly know it is a trick question but it does make me click and find out how it is possible. I think many people like to solve puzzles. So this road passes through a "mining district in Humboldt County, Nevada" but does not connect to "Humboldt County, California". I believe one line that supports this hook does not have a citation. The last line in route description. though nowhere near California's Humboldt County, far to the west on the Pacific Coast. Since this line is central to the hook, it needs to be cited per WP:DYKHFC. If we perhaps cite it with a map it may be obvious to the reader, and we hope it will not be considered WP:OR. Lightburst (talk) 16:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Lightburst: Thanks for reviewing and for the suggestion for a solution. @WeirdNAnnoyed: Do you have a map clearly showing the Humboldt Wagon Road which illustrates the claim made in the ALT2 hook and in the article, which we could cite in the article? Cielquiparle (talk) 16:46, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Cielquiparle:: Sadly no, the best I can do is this map: [16], which shows the Humboldt Wagon Road leading NE out of Chico, but does not label it as such. Is it OR to point out that the closest the road got to California's Humboldt County was Chico, which is about 90 miles from Humboldt as the crow flies? I tried to indicate that with the map in the article, but that's my own work based on references 1 and 2 from the article. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 23:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I found a map in one of the books referenced, which we could cite, but think we still need to reword the sentence accordingly. I might have time next week to track down the other book. Cielquiparle (talk) 22:20, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: This is my first time nominating the DYK. The article is about a square pyramid that, in one of the applications, may be used to construct a new polyhedron. However, I do think this hook may also be used in Pentagonal pyramid if this has already become GA in the future. Maybe someone can find an alternative hook other than the discussion in WT:DYK (see oldid=1186117126).
This is not a review but a comment, but I'm not sure if the hook as currently written would catch attention without illustrations or at least additional context. Perhaps David Eppstein could propose some additional hooks or give additional input here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:31, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks David. @Dedhert.Jr: If you don't mind, I've taken the liberty of striking the original hook and leaving just David's hooks for consideration. This is still awaiting a full review. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that in 2023, Ralph Nader founded the Winsted Citizen newspaper in his hometown of Winsted, Connecticut, where he delivered papers as a boy? Source: “At age 88, Ralph Nader believes his neighbors in northwest Connecticut are tired of electronics and miss the feel of holding a newspaper to read about their town.So at a time that local newspapers are dying at an alarming rate, the longtime activist is helping give birth to one.Copies of the first edition of the Winsted Citizen are circulating around this old New England mill town, with stories about a newly-opened food co-op, a Methodist church closing after attendance lagged at services and the repair of a century-old bridge.“If it works, it will be a good model for the rest of the country,” said Nader, who as a youngster delivered a long-gone Winsted daily paper in his hometown. He splits time now between Winsted and Washington, D.C.“WBUR
... that the Oasis of Bukhara used to be a swamp? Source: "This fact, together with the geomorphological data and interpretations, seems to suggest strongly that the inner areas of the oasis were uninhabited because of its swampy and marshy ground." — Rante, Rocco; Mirzaakhmedov, Jamal (2019). The Oasis of Bukhara, Volume 1: population, depopulation and settlement evolution, page 19
ALT1: ... that Bukhara used to mean the oasis instead of the city? Source: "... the emergence of the city of Bukhara as the primary (if still not unique) pole of the oasis, to the extent that the name of the oasis, Bukhara, became largely identified with its new metropolis." — Rante, Rocco; Schwarz, Florian; Tronca, Luigi (2022). The Oasis of Bukhara, Volume 2: An Archaeological, Sociological and Historical Study, page. 62
... that The Connor Brothers were believed to be two twenty-something artists from Brooklyn, but were actually two British art dealers from London? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-features/11153746/The-Connor-Brothers-An-exclusive-interview.html "According to the biographies and press releases made available at their shows and online, the 'twenty-something twin brothers' ...were brought up in California within a secretive and controversial Christian cult ...Far from being escapees from a religious cult living in Brooklyn, the 'brothers', I was told, were two art dealers from London... "
I'm open to being convinced. But the wp article it links to says it is "an archipelago off the southernmost tip of the South American mainland." I don't see this article or that one stating that it is in fact itself part of South America, rather than off of it. What do you know, not in either article, that makes you pretty sure? 2603:7000:2101:AA00:59D9:28DE:BCC:4796 (talk) 08:11, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
South America does show it on its map and discusses it as part of South America. Contrast with e.g the Galapagos, which are sometimes considered part of Oceania. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If this article were to have a ref that supported that aspect of the hook directly, I would be happy to put a check mark on that requirement.2603:7000:2101:AA00:894B:9C69:E769:856B (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Technically, I also need to provide the QPQ still. Often when I am done writing an article I don't have steam to do the QPQ review. I've put a sentence in, keeping in mind that the pumice has to first get past South America before it can get to TDF. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment only It would be good if you could tidy up the main hook; you are linking to a disambiguation page, and another link is a redirect. Both are not permissible for the main page. Schwede66 23:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that bereavement support groups are one of the most common services offered for grief but have little evidence of improving psychological outcomes? Source: "Some 38 papers were found, and all were retained to identify the outcomes researched and research findings. Many different outcomes were studied in the 18 quantitative, 11 qualitative, and 9 mixed-methods investigations undertaken worldwide... Most commonly, a group of bereavement services was evaluated as a whole, followed by group therapy, individual counseling, written information, and other less common services." https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/palliative-and-supportive-care/article/scoping-review-of-bereavement-service-outcomes/E059C4522F70521635A17F33FDC44426"This review summarizes the evidence of bereavement groups for symptoms of grief and depression. The literature search using Web of Science, EBSCO, PubMed, CINAHL, and MEDLINE yielded 14 studies (N = 1519) meeting the inclusion criteria (i.e., randomized-controlled trials, bereaved adults, bereavement group, validated measures). Overall, bereavement groups were marginally more effective than control groups post-treatment (gG = 0.33, gD = 0.22) but not at follow-up. Although tertiary interventions yielded larger effect sizes than secondary interventions, the difference was not significant. The results imply that the evidence for bereavement groups is weak, although the large heterogeneity of concepts for intervention and control groups limits the generalizability." https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07481187.2020.1772410
Not a review: Wouldn't the current phrasing imply the workforce has over $100 million in revenue as opposed to the company? Bremps... 04:04, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh yes it does. How about ALT1 : "...that a company, with over $100 million in revenue, has an all remote workforce?"
I don't see a compelling reason to pipe the company's name in this DYK, but up to those more involved than me :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh yes I don't either, ALT2:
"...that Olipop, with over $100 million in revenue, has an all-remote workforce?"
@Panamitsu: Please provide a QPQ, or this nomination is liable to be closed as unsuccessful. Z1720 (talk) 03:51, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, Z1720, I'm not sure how I forgot about that. QPQ is done now. —Panamitsu(talk) 04:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Full review needed now that QPQ has been providing; striking original hook and ALT1 per objection above. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:46, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Panamitsu: New enough and barely long enough. QPQ present. Big issue right now are the multiple {{cn}} tags that must be addressed before this goes to the Main Page. I am also hesitant about this entire article resting on two sources. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:12, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Reviewing... New enough, long enough, QPQ provided. Will complete soon, though I think a better hook than being inspired by his mother could be made. Whispyhistory (talk) 12:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... Interesting article bio, no copyvio issues, hook is in the article and verified but not as interesting as the work he has done. The lead is short. I have added some text. Thank you for creating this. Suggest work on some of his achievements and an alternative hook may become apparent. Whispyhistory (talk) 07:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Whispyhistory and Z1720: The nominator hasn't edited since the day of the nomination. Given that Whispyhistory has added to the article, would you be willing to adopt this nomination or suggest new hooks yourself? Or should the nomination be closed as abandoned? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:48, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article is new enough and long enough. Does source #1 say that the British coinage became the sole legal tender? AGFing on #2, #9, #14 and #16. Where is 0.931 in #3? The source says "pou tangata" with a space. Got to say, the way #4, #17 #6 are used is a bit impractical with the lack of page numbers - for example, the bit about the design being more suited for the florin or about Metcalfe's design being rejected for the penny or the lack of commemorative issues. Shouldn't "disliked eachother" be spaced? #7 and #8 do not contain the quotes. #11 says that the minister thought that it would make New Zealanders look like "savage Maoris" not simply "savage", which might be an important distinction. Does #15 discuss the Hector anywhere? That quote doesn't seem to have an inline ref. Didn't notice any copyvio or plagiarism. NPOV wise I can't help but notice that we say the reception was mixed but then mostly mention critiques. Why does the hook say "actually"? File:1933 Shilling, New Zealand, Reverse.png seems to lack a licence for the coin. QPQ is a bit base. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:41, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have left a note on Generalissima's talk page. They have been editing Wikipedia, so if they do not respond to this within the next couple of days this nomination can be closed as abandoned. Z1720 (talk) 19:21, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have been extremely busy lately but will be able to get back to this within the next couple days. Generalissima (talk) 05:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll review this. QPQ checks out, article length and newness of 5x expansion checks out. I don't see any issues with the article; it's well sourced and generally well put-together. The hook is interesting, but I feel it could be phrased a little more clearly; what about something along the lines of "...British Indian civil servant Winter Renouf advocated for Canadian wheat to be grown in Punjab?" Generalissima (talk) 04:33, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Be advised that this article existed in article space for a month and a half in 2018. It was then redirected to temporary work for a year and a half and then gig worker for 4 years. I can find no evidence of a WP:AFD, WP:CSD or WP:PROD in this article's history. I think it should have its own article. The current second sentence explains why redirecting it to gig worker is not sufficient ("The gig economy is composed of corporate entities, workers and consumers"). This is a current WP:VA5 nominee.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article is new and long enough at time of nomination, hook is cited and interesting; Earwig's happy. The article is in good shape. Personally I'm leaning towards ALT1 - the humour there is more appealing than the delay of a public project. The wording of it tripped me up a little, might it be better as:
ALT1a... that RoboCop's groin had to be partially shaved off during the assembly of his statue?
Either way, RoboCop needs to be wikilinked; likely most of the people seeing the hook will never have heard of it. Frzzltalk;contribs 17:08, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm open to ALTs, but "a RoboCop's groin" makes no sense. gobonobo+c 13:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oops, that was a mistake on my part, removed the "a". I'm happy to approve ALT1 with RoboCop linked if you think it's better. Frzzltalk;contribs 16:02, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT3: ... that fashion photographer Andrea Blanchsued artist Jeff Koons for copyright infringement after he reused a photograph she took of a woman's lower legs in one of his paintings without asking her? Source: "He knew that he’d done it, and he didn’t bother to ask permission ... I just know that he appropriated my image, and he should have asked for permission to use it.", same as source for original hook
I'm going to be frank here. I do not see the current hook as interesting to people unfamiliar with any of the linked names. It seems very reliant on knowledge that most Main Page readers may not be aware of. If I were to give a suggestion, perhaps the mistaken claim he died in a car accident may be a better and more appealing angle in this case. The article is also confusing: the article title is under "Tony Tribe", but the article consistently refers to him under his birth surname Mossop. This is not necessarily a DYK issue but perhaps there might need to be some discussion on what the article title should be under? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
My research says he is much better known as Tribe than Kingston but it might be worth a discussion to confirm this. ALT1: ... that the "Red Red Wine" singer Tony Tribe is wrongly thought to have died in 1970?--Launchballer 06:06, 19 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 is a good direction but given that the song doesn't seem actually that well-known I'd like some other variants of ALT1 that still focus on the wrongful death angle but give different descriptors for Tribe/Mossop. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:02, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Another thing: is what happened to him after the 1970s known for certain? The article doesn't of course give complete confirmation that Mossop/Tribe/Kingston are the same person, only that multiple sources suggest it, and there's nothing talking about what happened after the early 1970s or his later life, or even if he's still alive. Per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, that might be an issue unless there simply isn't any known information. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I saw a comment on Steve Hoffman's forums that suggested that he died in the late 1970s, so it's possible that someone hit '0' when they meant '9'. I don't think conjecture's good enough for a potential BLP though.--Launchballer 01:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. Given the circumstances I wonder if a broader discussion of some kind would be needed here as it seems to be an unusual case on whether or not he's actually still alive, if the hook fact is accurate, and the link you gave. At the very least, I don't think the new hook could proceed as-is at the moment. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Jamaica Observer says "1970s", so it's possible that someone left off an "s". (It's also just possible that someone from Trojan got the hump about him moving to Canada and put out false press, but a) conjecture isn't good enough for a BLP, and b) perhaps I'm being overly cynical.)
ALT3: ... that in 1969, Tony Tribe performed at the first Caribbean Music Festival, the first major reggae event to be held in Britain?
ALT4: ... that the Jamaica-born English reggae singer Tony Tribe used to have blouses thrown at him while performing as part of the Soul Seekers?--Launchballer 09:22, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Among the new hooks, ALT4 is probably the best option, although the thing about his death still needs to be resolved in the article before the nomination can be approved. Admittedly this could raise OR or SYNTH issues so resolving this might be difficult, but per WP:DYKCOMPLETE it's regrettably necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:53, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the first theatrical run of Ion Luca Caragiale's (pictured)A Stormy Night, which features a journalist nearly beaten up by the Civil Guard, saw Caragiale nearly beaten up by the Civil Guard? Source: The stuff about the journalist (Rică Venturiano) is from multiple sources, and is a central element of the play; it is mentioned in the synopsis of the article, but, if need be, can also be picked up from the references used in the section titled "Rică". Multiple sources also on the Caragiale's near-beating, with a condensed one being N. Vătămanu, "45 de ani de la moartea lui I. L. Caragiale. Jupîn Dumitrache", in Gazeta Literară, Vol. IV, Issue 25, June 1957, p. 5: "Caragiale însuşi scria in introducerea la Notiţe critice: 'La a doua reprezentaţie am fost fluierat, huiduit şi ameninţat, de o droaie de patrioţi din garda civică, cu bătaie în piaţa teatrului. Nişte tineri ofiţeri m-au scăpat de furia poporului'. S-ar părea că garda naţională ridiculizată in comedie a reacţionat energic provocind scandalul." ("Caragiale himself wrote in his introduction to Critical Notes: 'On the second staging [of A Stormy Nigh] there was a crowd of patriots from the civic guard, whistling, heckling and threatening me with a beating out in the theater square. Some young officers stepped in to save me from the fury of the people'. It would seem that the national guard, which was strongly ridiculed in that comedy had reacted strongly, provoking a scandal.") Vătămanu goes on to name a few participants in the brouhaha; note that he uses the name "national guard" for what was commonly known as the Civil Guard, or City Guard.
Comment: Special occasion holding request: Would be great if this were featured on January 18 (which was is the 145th anniversary of the premiere, in Old Style), or January 30 (the same in New Style, and also Caragiale's anniversary, in Old Style).
Just a comment, but both requested dates (January 18 and January 30) are beyond the six-week limit for special occasion requests, calculating from the nomination date of December 5. As such, if there is a desire for either date to be used, an IAR exemption request needs to be raised at WT:DYK, otherwise the hook can only run as a regular hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:43, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: * I am very welcome to suggestions for a different hook. The facts in summary are: a hotel tried to convince three employees to sign an agreement to work as contractors. This deprived them of their minimum entitlements. This sort of arrangement is called 'sham contracting' in australia. I do not love my hook. Proposed amendments welcome.
ALT1: ... that an Australian High Court case found a hotel chain to have used third-party contractors to avoid paying employees their required benefits? ––– GMH Melbourne (talk) 12:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Richard Twine's 2010 Animals as Biotechnology was "the first book fully dedicated to" the discipline of critical animal studies? Source: "Richard Twine, a highly significant foundational CAS scholar who helped develop ICAS Europe and authored the first book fully dedicated to CAS, Animais as Biotechnology: Ethics, Sustainability and Critical Animal Studies, writes, 'CAS scholars stress ethical veganism and may work with those civil society groups or individuals who campaign against animal exploitation' (p. 8)." On page xxviii of this paper.
ALT1: ...that Animals as Biotechnology, a 2010 monograph by the sociologist Richard Twine, was "the first book fully dedicated to" the discipline of critical animal studies? Source as above.
Not a review, but a comment: the quote in both hooks is so awkward with its ending in a "to" that you may as well drop the quotation marks and make the hooks paraphrases. Dahn (talk) 06:12, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT5: ... that the Van Cortlandt House, the oldest known surviving house in the Bronx, was once in Westchester? Source: Bankoff, Winter & Ricciardi 1992, p. 3.
... that Romanian adventure novelist N. D. Popescu-Popnedea(pictured) was mocked by literary peers such as Ion Luca Caragiale, who proposed erecting him a bust "in its natural lard"? Source: Ștefan Cazimir, Caragiale față cu kitschul, p. 101. Bucharest: Cartea Românească, 1988. You can actually check out the original text, in its weird orthography and with the pseudonymous signature "Car." (bottom of page 1).
ALT1: ... that when training in nursing in Soviet Ukraine, Titina Silá helped translate the healthcare lessons through five different languages? Source: Galvão, Inês; Laranjeiro, Catarina (2019). "Gender Struggle in Guinea-Bissau: Women's Participation on and off the Liberation Record". In Domingos, Nuno; Bandeira Jerónimo, Miguel; Roque, Ricardo (eds.). Resistance and Colonialism: Insurgent Peoples in World History. Cambridge Imperial and Post-Colonial Studies. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 103. doi:10.1007/978-3-030-19167-2_4. ISBN978-3-030-19167-2.
Not a review but a comment, but I have deep reservations about any of the hooks not just due to possible BLP concerns but also regarding the tone of any of the hooks, especially with the whole conflict going on. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
As a song related to a contentious topic, we should of course take care to comply with policies and guidelines. I'm unclear on what the tone and possible BLP concerns are and how they disqualify these hooks (presumably per WP:DYKHOOKBLP). Drill music often glorifies violence and there is no undue focus on negative aspects of the living people mentioned. Any clarification would be appreciated. gobonobo+c 16:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I really don't think that running hooks talking about calling for the death of Muslim artists, in reference to Hanukkah or Israel, while a major conflict that to put it mildly has proven very controversial, is a good idea. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for clarifying. I do see where you're coming from. Some might say it wasn't a good idea to write the song in the first place. But the song was written, it became very popular, reliable sources reported on it, and now we have an article for it. I think the article qualifies for DYK in other respects. As far as I know, we have no rule that says we have to censor hooks when there is a major conflict. gobonobo+c 23:27, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There isn't a rule against hooks about the Israel-Palestine conflict, but understandably such nominations and hooks get much more scrutiny compared to other nominations. In the past, hooks that were seen to be sensational or gratuitous involving the conflict had been modified or declined. The article itself isn't necessarily disqualified from DYK, but the hooks probably need to be changed. At the very least, if either hook was approved and ran on the Main Page, we would likely be getting complaints either at WP:ERRORS or at WT:DYK, which is something that ideally we'd want to avoid. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Given that the Brisbane Lions may not be that well-known outside of Australia, I've taken the liberty of adding "Brisbane" to the hook. Leaving the review to another reviewer, although I'd like to see more hooks proposed here as well. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:28, 12 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Interesting: - The result of the game is not interesting without context. If the Lions were a major underdog or otherwise unexpected, then this should be elaborated. Otherwise, a new hook is needed.
I reject the proposition that our DYK rules (or GA for that matter) demand citations include metadata such as authorship and date (other than access date). New review requested. Hawkeye7(discuss) 00:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regardless of the metadata issues (I do agree that we do not need metadata stuff since they're optional), we still need new hooks here. I've tried thinking up of some myself but so far I've come up empty (I don't think the "first time in Melbourne in several years" angle would be that catchy unless you're a big Aussie rules fan). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1 ... that prior to the 2023 AFL Women's Grand Final, the Brisbane Lions(pictured) included a 20-kilometre trail hike carrying 14 metal jerry cans during pre-season training?
Sounds good to me. They carried a jerry can onto the oval at the conclusion of the game. Hawkeye7(discuss) 01:55, 15 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I got into touch with Sounder over Discord DMs and to cut a long story short he is requesting for another editor to take a look at his. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:23, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Thomas Ragle, the president of Marlboro College from 1958 to 1981, described his position for the first 15 years as like "a 19th century college president"?
... that Ingushetia is often called “the country of towers" after the Ingush towers, unique medieval monuments found throughout the region? Source: In the Middle Ages, a period of revival of the tower culture of the North Caucasus began, the phenomenon of which, according to researchers, mostly manifested in the mountains of Ingushetia, which was labeled by many as “the country of towers", to the extent that in 2022 the region's tourism committee announced that the Federal Service for Intellectual Property (Russia) patented the slogan "Ingushetia — Country of Towers". link: https://gazetaingush.ru/news/komitet-po-turizmu-regiona-poluchil-patent-na-ispolzovanie-slogana-ingushetiya-rodina-bashen
... that Ken Balcomb, an expert orca researcher, could often identify individual animals just by their whale song? Source: “ He rigged his home, on the northwest shore of San Juan Island, with a stereo linked to hydrophones out in the water. When an orca passed, he could often identify its whale song.” NY Times
Comment: This doesn't have to happen, but if we have a long wait for this and it gets closer, March 6 would be a good date to run this as it's the 40th anniversary of the start of the British coal miners' strike that inspired the song (something that will no doubt be the subject of some coverage in the UK media). ALT3 would be good for that; the hook can easily be amended to note the occasion. But, as I said, as much as I love anniversary hooks, I'm not standing on ceremony; in fact the article would hardly be "new" by that point.
@Nathan121212: It has been two weeks since the nomination and a QPQ has not yet been provided. Please provide a QPQ to prevent the nomination from being closed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:10, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Honestly, I don't think either of these hooks is interesting enough for DYK. (And "space elevator" isn't a mass noun, so would need a leadingi "a".) — SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 10:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: The article was increased five-fold more than seven days ago, on November 21 2023. The article was expanded from 125 words to roughly 2300! It's a new, low-traffic article that still deserves consideration.
Not a review, but considering the publicity he's had since his death, I'm not sure how well this hook works without including the fact that he was killed as a result of actions by the IDF... Frzzltalk;contribs
Comment: Combining several newspaper descriptions of him and his nickname for ALT0 and ALT1. ALT2 is another newspaper quote while ALT3 is the same with his nickname. Each is probably a good quirky hook. Preference for ALT0/ALT1 but ALT2/ALT3 would be okay as well.
Even better, ALT0 could be ALT4 ... that "Cave Man Kenny" was a "fast-charging, hard-hitting" "ubiquitous" "obstreperous iron man" with "dependable shoulders"? / ALT5 ... that Cave Man Kenny was a fast-charging, hard-hitting ubiquitous obstreperous iron man with dependable shoulders? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that parochial altruism, a concept in social psychology and evolutionary biology, explains why people are often altruistic towards their own social group while displaying hostility towards out-groups? Source: Bernhard, Helen; Fischbacher, Urs; Fehr, Ernst (2006-08-24). "Parochial altruism in humans". Nature. 442 (7105): 912–915. doi:10.1038/nature04981. ISSN 1476-4687. PMID 16929297. S2CID 4411945.
ALT3: ... that the Bartow–Pell Mansion was once called a "challenge to the hard-boiled reputation of the Bronx"? Source: Gale, Amy (September 8, 2004). "Houses bring New York's past to life". The Christian Science Monitor. p. 14.
ALT4: ... that New York City's Bartow–Pell Mansion, once a summertime City Hall, became a museum after its operator was restricted from importing and exporting plants? Source: Multiple, see above
ALT2: ... that the name of horror-folk band Harley Poe possibly came from the name of a murdered neighbour of the frontman? Source: iHorror interview with Joseph Whiteford (quote too long to put here, but it's from the first question in the interview)
There are two primary issues with the nomination at the moment. The first is that a QPQ has yet to be provided despite being a week since the nomination. The second is that neither hook seems to be appealing or interesting to broad audiences. I would suggest that more hooks about him be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry, I ended up falling sick this past week and am just recovering. I'll get to both tomorrow! Legoktm (talk) 04:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that personality neuroscience studies personality in your brain? Source: DeYoung, Colin G.; Beaty, Roger E.; Genç, Erhan; Latzman, Robert D.; Passamonti, Luca; Servaas, Michelle N.; Shackman, Alexander J.; Smillie, Luke D.; Spreng, R. Nathan; Viding, Essi; Wacker, Jan (2022-10-12). "Personality neuroscience: An emerging field with bright prospects". Personality Science. 3. doi:10.5964/ps.7269. ISSN 2700-0710. PMC 9561792. PMID 36250039.
Comment (not reviewing): A DYK hook has to be more than just a definition of the term. It should be something that the reader would find somewhat surprising. We also have to avoid second-person language ("you"). MartinPoulter (talk) 12:39, 16 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
More of a comment than a review, but the currently-proposed hook seems to be reliant on specialist knowledge and thus may not be considered interesting by a wide audience. @Owais Al Qarni: Can you please propose additional hooks? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello @Narutolovehinata5:, I am relatively new to DYK. I don't understand your remark, "More of a comment than a review." Can you provide more guidance on the type of sentence required for the task?–Owais Al Qarni (talk) 05:52, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It simply means I am commenting on the hook you proposed without actually reviewing the nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It has the same issue: unless the reader is familiar with Darul Uloom Deoband, the hook still has the issue of not being interesting to broad audiences. Considering you're new to DYK, I understand how things can seem difficult, admittedly DYK has quite a learning curve. I wonder if an editor like Buidhe might be able to assist here further or perhaps propose hooks to show how it's done. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:50, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Looks an interesting nomination. I'm not sure if this works but a hooky hook around this might be something like this: ─ The Aafī on Mobile(talk) 12:33, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I don't think ALT1a is that hooky either. Perhaps a hook about the actual content of the magazine might work? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:12, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I like it, but that fact alone wasn't directly supported by the article (it just states that the series is called "Hydraulic Press Girl"). The hook I suggested focuses on her acting in commercials, which is mentioned. I've now added that fact to the article and support the alt hook. ObserveOwl (chit-chat • my doings) 16:15, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that trauma-informed schools are an exciting new innovation in mental health to support youth? Source: T"rauma-informed education (TIE) represents a paradigm shift in education, acknowledging the prevalence of trauma on students, and attempting to mitigate its widespread impact. By adopting trauma-informed principles, educational organizations aim to create supportive environments that facilitate learning and promote the emotional well-being of students"
Not a review (as I'll be going on holiday), but before this can go anywhere, you need to address the maintenance tags. They must go before this can go to the main page. Schwede66 00:44, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Likewise, not a full review, but I would reccomend a different hook. The one that you have proposed is an opinion statement (that they are "exciting"), and it is unsourced and not in the article to boot. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 05:00, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Intresting article but has some issues when it comes to DYK nomination. In the Death and Legacy section, the last line, which is related to the first hook, is unsourced. Regarding ALT 2, the line in the article mentions of Singh selling sweets and chutneys but does not state if he sold it out of his suitcase as mentioned in ALT2. Hope you can address these issues before the article can be passed for DYK. Toadboy123 (talk) 12:25, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Handel composed the opera Daphne(cover pictured) for the Oper am Gänsemarkt in Hamburg in 1706, but had left for Italy when it was premiered in 1708? Source: several
Reviewed: to come
Comment: I think this would be best when Handel's lost operas are TFA, 17 January.
Article meets DYK requirements and is free from close paraphrasing. There are a few uncited statements in the article, including the part about Hinsch and the harpsicord direction. The hook is cited inline and is interesting even to non-classical music fans, though I could suggest an alternate wording specifying that he never saw it live, or perhaps an alternative hook that mentions only fragments survive (though I still prefer the original hook fact). QPQ is still pending. Once the issues are resolved the nomination will be approved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are unfortunately significant issues with the hook and article, which are based on the long-held assumption that Handel did not return to Hamburg for the premieres of Florindo and Daphne. The pre-existing article Handel's lost Hamburg operas is far more measured about the historical record and likelihoods gleaned from more recent sources: the "Florindo and Daphne" section's "Performance history" subsection notes not only Whether Handel was present at any time during rehearsals or performance is uncertain; he may have returned from Italy, fresh from the opening of Rodrigo in Florence, to supervise the production of Florindo and Daphne in Hamburg per Ellen Harris, but also that, according to Handel's Grove bio by Anthony Hicks, so unusual a project would not have been attempted without the composer's presence. I don't know what happened to the DYK guideline that read If an article contradicts an existing article, the contradiction should be resolved one way or the other before the article is approved, but I think this is exactly the situation that it was trying to prevent. The composition of the two operas (originally one opera, but split) could have happened in 1706 before or after Handel left for Italy, or in 1707 while he was there—it's yet another unknown. This article needs significant additional factual work and citations before it's ready for DYK. A very minor point (and the one that got me looking at this nomination in the first place): the image is not of the cover of the opera libretto, but of the title page (as it says in the article); if the image is to be used, (libretto title page pictured) is probably the most accurate way to describe it. (I've amended the caption to reflect this.) BlueMoonset (talk) 05:38, 25 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that a rich Nawab rejected the offer of Amrita Sher-Gil’s Nude of Indira, Three Girls and the Villagers? Source: See quotes in article. Amrita Sher-Gil: A Self-Portrait in Letters and Writings. New Delhi: Tulika Books. pp. 271-285. ISBN 978-81-89487-59-1
ALT1: ... that the Indian National Congressman Diwan Chaman Lall failed to get rid of a painting of the Nude Indira(pictured)? Source: 1938 - left "Indu's nude" with Diwan Chaman Lall "to see if he could palm it off on someone but he wasn't successful". Sundaram, pp. 522-523
ALT3: ... that gaming website Video Games Chronicle was established in 2019 to blend industry publications and mainstream sites? Source: GamesIndustry.biz
Not a review: "was estimated to... represent 0.4% of global electricity consumption (!)" That's way more than I expected. I think the article is ripe for a lot of punchy hooks. Bremps... 01:52, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is not a review, just a comment, but as is the special occasion request might not be granted right now as the nomination was started on December 12. February 14, 2024 is beyond the normal six-week limitation for special occasion requests. If there is still a desire to have this hook run on Valentine's Day, an IAR exemption could be requested at WT:DYK, but there is no guarantee that such a request would be granted (though from experience, WT:DYK tends to be somewhat liberal with regards to IAR exemptions as long as there's a good reason). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The target article (Impact of Yuna Kim) is not linked in either of the hooks. If this is a hook about that article, it should be linked and bolded in the proposed hook(s). Aoba47 (talk) 00:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the response, and it happens to the best of us. Aoba47 (talk) 16:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Passerby comment: the hook article still isn't bolded in the above two hooks, but more generally, I would suggest that those extra wikilinks are distracting from the DYK'd article even if it was bolded. Maybe it's better to just remove the other wikilinks? I would definitely assume many casual readers would click on "Yuna Kim" instead expecting that to be the DYK article. Suggested:
I've also shortened these somewhat - I'm of the "short and punchy" school of thought, especially since casual readers may not know what "elements" mean in a figure skating context. SnowFire (talk) 21:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also, if we're being pedantic, I'm not a huge fan of ALT1 / ALT1b - I presume she did have rivals in the sense that she wasn't just skating alone, but rather in competitions. And her competition probably disagrees! If kept, it'd probably be best as an attributed opinion, like "one journalist wrote that her artistry had no rival." But of course, phrasing it like that shows that this claim isn't really THAT impressive. SnowFire (talk) 21:08, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the assistance with the bolding, too. I like the first hook, but with this feedback, I'd like to withdraw ALT1b and replace it with this:
Because then it'd make her impact unique to this sport (as opposed to all the other skaters who have had major impact on figure skating - Korean figure skating is as big as it is now BECAUSE of Yuna, as has been mentioned in this article repeatedly). Editor120918756 (talk) 07:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Editor120918756:, I disagree with your change to ALT2 because as you well know, Kim's influence went far beyond figure skating in Korea. We could say "...a major impact on the sport of figure skating", but that might be too long and redundant. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:17, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that the Alex quartet was partly inspired by author Tessa Duder's own championship swimming career, but she says it is not semi-autobiographical? Source: "Which small vignette (pretty much true) brings me to reviewers who blithely assume that Alex is semi-autobiographical. ... authenticity doesn’t mean “semi-autobiographical”. ... I too was a schoolgirl “overachiever” and was – am still – famously opinionated, but the similarities are superficial. Only I know what is based on memories, what is researched, what has been playfully expanded from facts or what – the largest category – is actually pure invention." [19]
Comment: Realized I'm a bit late (two days); requesting an extension per Wikipedia:Did you know/Guidelines (would've nominated immediately after expansion but it was still at AFD then, and then I forgot to nominate it right after the AFD closed on Dec. 18).
current cleanup banner in the article will need to be fixed before this article can be promoted at DYK. Additionally, I'm not sure the second hook is good. Women with uncomplicated pregnancy may not face any dangers due to lack of medical care. The source would need to meet WP:MEDRS. (t · c) buidhe 08:17, 15 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT0 might be too short, I'd suggest something like "classified as MCDs" rather than "are MCDs" Orchastrattor (talk) 04:39, 21 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
First let me say that this is a really important article, and I thank you for adding it to Wikipedia. I've done some additional cleanup on the grammar. Regarding the alts, I've struck the originals re: the comments above and am suggesting slight modifications below.
Interesting: - The ALT0 hook is just not interesting to a broad audience; some context as to who Pryor is would make it better.
QPQ: - Pending Overall: Would like to see some more hooks. SounderBruce 07:20, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
SounderBruce, my initial idea was to do something around his time spent in Africa in his younger years, but the details seem to be inconsistently given ("walked across" vs "hitchhiked") in the two newspaper sources in the article and I couldn't really come up with anything to account for it while still remaining interesting. He was quite the character, though, going off of the newspaper articles. Did you have any ideas? Connormah (talk) 03:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Connormah: Do you have any proposals for hooks? @SounderBruce: Any ideas on what content is interesting to use as a hook? Z1720 (talk) 00:59, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'll review this. The article fits age and length requirements. It does not appear to have any copyvio or sourcing issues. I don't have access to Dudbridge's text, but accepting on good faith; Hook is interesting enough, and is cited in-article. QPQ checks out. My only concern is that there is quite a bit of over-citing in the penultimate paragraph; since the cites all seem to return to Dudbridge 1995, couldn't the whole paragraph just be cited as "Dudbridge 1995, pp 177-236"? A wide spread, but certainly easier to parse than over a dozen citations to the same section of the same book all right in a row. Generalissima (talk) 04:13, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm going to ask for assistance from someone with the technical know-how, perhaps either Theleekycauldron or Vaticidalprophet, because this page should not have been a copypaste of the original nomination but should have been a clean, new nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:17, 16 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Narutolovehinata5, Toadboy123, as this is supposed to be a totally new nomination, I have deleted everything from the prior review (except maybe the hook). This includes the QPQ, which was supplied by Onegreatjoke for that particular nomination and was used for it even though it didn't ultimately pass; Toadboy123 will need to supply their own QPQ for this new nomination. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Frank Duncan thought his chances were "slim" to make the San Diego Chargers, but head coach Don Coryell predicted that he would be a starter some day? Source: The San Diego Union: "Duncan admitted he considered his chances 'slim' when he joined the Chargers...'Some day he will be a starter, and not too long,' predicted Coryell."
Comment: It would be great if this could run on 6 March, her 30th birthday. If either ALT1 or ALT2 run, I could probably throw together an article on either Hey Tracey or the Cock Destroyers and run this as a double nom.
ALT1: ... that locals responding to the 1882 Spuyten Duyvil train wreck used snowballs to extinguish the fires in the wrecked cars (illustration, pictured)? Source: "And, although badly burned about the face and hands, Hanford started to roll a snowball toward the terrible mass of burning timbers and hissing metal. Soon hundreds of willing hands were pushing great mounds of snow toward the danger spot ... Tons of snow were thrown upon the two cars, and in a short time the volunteer workers had the hills and roadway scraped almost entirely clear of snow. " Railroad Stories.
ALT2: ... that the brakeman prosecuted for his negligence in the 1882 Spuyten Duyvil train wreck testified that he had never read the rulebook because he was illiterate? Source: "Although George Melius had been employed in train service on the New York Central & Hudson River Railroad for more than twenty years, he could neither read nor write!" Railroad Stories
Comment: The 142nd anniversary of this is coming up on January 13. I can easily reword if we want to run one of these on that date. (I am also not totally done with this article; just nominating it now because Christmas. I may also have another picture to go with one of the hooks
@Lullabying: This isn't turning up as a 5x expansion (1101 → 3471 characters). It'd need to be 5505 characters to qualify. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:21, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for letting me know. I'll add more info as I go. lullabying (talk) 21:31, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that modern Mongolians view Genghis Khan(pictured) as the founding father of their country? Source: See "Mongolia" subsection, fourth paragraph, final sentence.
ALT1: ... that Genghis Khan(pictured) was extremely charismatic and renowned for his generosity towards his followers? Source: See "Character and achievements" section, second paragraph, third and fifth sentences.
ALT2: ... that Genghis Khan(pictured) discouraged flattery and encouraged his companions to criticise his mistakes? Source: See "Character and achievements" section, third paragraph, third sentence.
ALT3: ... that Genghis Khan(pictured) hated luxury, proudly stating "I am from the barbaric North. I wear the same clothing and eat the same food as the cowherds and horse-herders"? Source: See "Character and achievements" section, quote box.
... that Kevin Lippert started Princeton Architectural Press by selling books out of the trunk of his car? Source: “Mr. Lippert printed 1,000 copies and hawked them to students for $55 apiece out of the trunk of his car. They sold out immediately.Thus was born Princeton Architectural Press, of which he was founder and publisher. It eventually branched out beyond its classic reprint series to produce high-quality books on architecture, design and visual culture — and, later, books on hobbies and crafts, children’s books and note cards.” NY Times
... that as part of the Hardpointmissile defense system, ARPA developed missiles able to hit 400 g of acceleration and reaction times in milliseconds? Source: Reed
@Maury Markowitz: I'm really struggling with this DYK. There seems to be a huge amount of cross over with the subject discussed at Sprint_(missile) to the point where I'm wondering if this article is superfluous? and other than HAPDAR I'm struggling to confirm in any of the sources provided that confirms the name of the system as Hardpoint. Wondering if you might be able to provide any guidance? Seddontalk 03:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Seddon: I can't speak to the Sprint article, I'm not a primary author there. Given this was a completely different project, run by a different organization, built by different companies, with NOTE easily met, I'm not sure there's an issue to correct in this article. The Sprint article also talks about Thunderbird for some reason... the issue would appear to be on that side.
About the second part. If you mean "does the H in HAPDAR mean Hardpoint", then I would point to the IEEE article whose title is "Hardpoint Demonstration Array Radar" and there's any number of independent verifications like this one at MIT. But you mean "I can't verify this thing is called Hardpoint, I only see that in the title of the radar", then there are any number of independent works that verify it to one degree or another, including this one in Daedalus or this mention in the DOD annual report index. It is worth noting that ARPA referred to it both as "hard point" and "hardpoint" in the documents I've found (all linked within), both as the development effort and the overall concept, so it can be very confusing. It's a bit of the "Kleenex" problem.
@Maury Markowitz: hugely appreciate your response. Good enough for me. Will review later today. Seddontalk 15:59, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Other problems: - If we want an image associated then possibly update the hook to "developed missiles (pictured) able to hit 400 g of acceleration and reaction times in milliseconds?
Clear at 100px: - I'm wondering if File:Hibex.jpg might be a better image? The in-flight one isn't of particularly great quality.
QPQ: - Not done Overall: mostly just some comments about the image but we could skip on the image and needs a QPQ. Article could do with a quick copy edit. This was a reasonable number and dependaent are examples I found. Seddontalk 19:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sorry for my tardy reply @Seddon:, xmas time is busy! Excellent review. As to the image, my only concern with the one you suggest is that it is "busy", it's in the foreground but there's so much else going on. I think the solution might be to have someone "grey out" (or "white out" is more accurate) the rest of the image so that the missile stands out more. Let me ask over on the commons. Maury Markowitz (talk) 16:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that 40 Bank Street, a skyscraper in London, looks like two different buildings fused into one? Source: Wright, Herbert (2006). "40 Bank Street". London High. Frances Lincoln. p. 203-204.
... that Laverstock ware pottery was first produced to supply the royal palace at Clarendon, but later was used all over the south of England? Source: "Customers for these goods were to be found at the royal palace at Clarendon, near Salisbury and in the City itself. It is also known from sites all over southern England." https://salisburymuseum.org.uk/collections/medieval-pottery/
... that Şenay Duzcu is often referred to as "Germany's first female German-Turkish stand-up comedian"? Source: "RG: Frau Duzcu, Sie werden oft als Deutschlands erste türkische Komikerin bezeichnet. Stimmt das wirklich? Senay Duzcu: Ja, damals war ich die erste Immigrantin überhaupt, die das gemacht hat." (in German)[20]
ALT1: ... that stand-up comedianŞenay Duzcu was awarded with the "German-Turkish Friendship Prize"? Source: "RG: Ihr Engagement für die Völkerverständigung brachte Ihnen 2007 den Deutsch-Türkischen Freundschaftspreis ..." (in German)[21]
Comment: Sniped a draft that wasn't going anywhere in its current state and wrote basically all the current text. This is my first Australia radio DYK.
Article move to mainspace date versus filing date okay. Article length okay. Sourcing and neutrality good. No evident signs of copyvio. QPQ done. Hook facts verified. I think ALT0 is much the better given the surprise factor, so whether to link or not within ALT1 is moot in my view.
Some other things: The article really needs a photograph of the house itself, but alas I don't see one this is available for use. (SCH) is an early exemplar this acroynm is only used once in article – if not in common use, it should be eliminated, one less piece of mental clutter. not require a furnace[4], and similar elsewhere, note goes after the comma not before. in Regina, Saskatchewan which neighborhood of Regina, in what kind of setting? Is there some Regina article that can mention and link to this one? its ventilation system ... Saskatchewan Conservation House achieved measures of 0.8 ach@50pa in the age of Covid, is this a good thing or a bad thing? is the air stale and motionless all the time? estimated as $30[9]-$40 for a year.[10] the note placement is awkward, would suggest both together at the end of the phrase. heat recovery systems can this be linked to heat recovery ventilation? the energy crisis of the 1970s this can be linked to 1970s energy crisis. For $65,000.00 and similar, there is no usefulness in included the cents amount. insulated to about R100 should this be r-100? That's how other insulation levels are formatted. – Harold Orr, 2013[5][10] no need to link Harold Orr again, it's kind of visually distracting, to me at least. Category:Buildings and structures in Canada this can be narrowed to Category:Buildings and structures in Regina, Saskatchewan. And one that can be added is Category:Houses completed in 1977.
Overall, good job, interesting article, I liked reading it. Wasted Time R (talk) 21:42, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Wasted Time R: Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I've made the changes you suggest. I haven't been able to find an out-of-copyright image, but I've put a request on the article's talk page. Glad you enjoyed the article! Happy holidays, Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 22:59, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1: ... that although Bono's band U2 made only No. 52 on the UK Albums Chart with his debut album, his son's band Inhaler topped the chart with his? Source: multiple
The article has some text taken straight from this source without acknowledging this (and some of it is mangled in an attempt to avoid the copying, resulting in sentence fragments like " and would have . ". The source is presumably not copyrighted (US government?) but plagiarism needs acknowledgmente/attribution anyway. Fram (talk) 08:04, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah good catch! I also saw you caught my accidental drafting in the mainspace so thank you catching that as well! I should probably wait till the next day before publishing in the future. Regarding the copyright, my working assumption is that its not PD and so I was taking care to rewrite everything, though not enough and I should have been more careful about copying snippets whilst writing in that process. The author was NASA's Principal Investigator for the experiment but those are roles rather than posts. Whilst its a post that is in some way remunerated by NASA, I think the relationship is more like that of a contractor rather than an employee and so I don't think PD-GOV applies. I've rewritten and added a source. Seddontalk 12:09, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've done a quick copyedit as well. Seddontalk 18:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
... that Catherine, Princess of Wales(pictured), is a keen amateur photographer and has taken many official photographs of her children?
ALT1: ...that Catherine, Princess of Wales(pictured), is known for her fashion sense and has been listed as one of the most influential people in the fashion industry?
Reviewed:
Comment: She is the future Queen and her article has been only recently improved to GA status. Hence this nomination for it to appear on DYK
Overall: @MSincccc: could you confirm if this is only your 2nd DYK? Also do you want to use to the infobox image? Would potentially make a good DYK photo. Seddontalk 20:02, 22 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Seddon: Yes this is my second DYK nomination. Also I am not against the use of the infobox portrait as the DYK photo. Even I believe its a good one to use. Also hoping that this hook appears on the Main Page in January on the occasion of her birthday.
@MSincccc: if you can do the copyedit and also propose a caption for the photo (added above) then we should be good to go. Seddontalk 13:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Seddon: This image is from a pre-Coronation reception attended by the senior working royals in May. But if you are thinking of a suitable caption for DYK, then "Catherine in 2023" will be most accurate lest you have any other means to make the caption more viable. Regards MSincccc
@Seddon: I could have mentioned these details (of her being patron) in my original hook but found them to be extraneous hence omitted them. Anyways you know best hence we can proceed with this as a second alternative.
... that Koh Masaki was the first gay Japanese pornographic film actor to openly identify as gay both in his films and in his personal life? Source: Regimes of Desire: Young Gay Men, Media, and Masculinity in Tokyo
ALT1: ... that before he became a pornographic film actor, Koh Masaki worked simultaneously as a flight attendant and sex worker? Source: 1
ALT2: ... that Koh Masaki was one of the first gay pornographic film actors in Japan to openly appear in adult films without obscuring his identity? Source: 2
... that the grandson of abolitionist James Townsend was the first United States man to complete teacher training under the tutelage of Maria Montessori? Source: McGroarty, John Steven (1921). Los Angeles from the Mountains to the Sea. American Historical Society. p. 503.
This is only a comment rather than a review, but I would suggest proposing a hook about Townsend himself as the current hook is more about his grandson than himself. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 02:16, 23 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ALT1: ... that Sofiya Vakman relinquished a career as a concert pianist because a skin disorder she contracted after swimming made it painful for her to play? Source: Ibid.
... that in the Six Poems by Marina Tsvetayeva, Dmitri Shostakovich wanted to convey how he imagined the poet's voice, "husky, hefty, occluded in the smoke of homegrown tobacco"? Source: In Шостакович. Жизнь и творчество (Volume 2) by Sofia Khentova, pages 556–557
... that producers of Hollyoaks worked with the charity "Little People UK" in order to make sure that Lacey Lloyd, who has dwarfism, was portrayed authentically? Source: [1]
ALT3: ... that Lacey Lloyd was introduced to Hollyoaks as the producers wanted to throwback to the earlier days of the show, where students would live together under the same roof? Source: [4]
ALT12: ... that Annabelle Davis spent time learning legal terminology in order to help her with the role of paralegal Lacey Lloyd? Source: [13]
Reviewed:
Comment: I have some other hook ideas but I did not want to overwhelm with too many. I hope these are okay for now. Please let me know if there any questions of course!
Not a review (and I review oldest first so I probably wouldn't touch this any earlier than about late February), but the Metro is listed at WP:RSP as being generally unreliable, and I wouldn't use the Mirror, the Sunday People or the Evening Standard on similar grounds.--Launchballer 01:20, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
References
^Hughes, Johnathon (14–20 January 2023). "Lacey wants to make her mark on the world!". Inside Soap. No. 2. pp. 46–47.
... that the 400th episode of Neighbours features the serial's first Christmas story? Source: "The great Santa shake-up!", Cook, Stephen, 29 November 1986, TV Week, page 33, "the network decided to keep it on air as long as possible so we were able to do a Christmas story."
ALT2: ... that the Neighbours cast entered "a Christmas fairyland" in the 1986 season finale? Source: "The great Santa shake-up!", Cook, Stephen, 29 November 1986, TV Week, page 33, "That "little dream" sees the whole of the Neighbours cast in a very different neighborhood - a Christmas fairyland in which they all play colorful characters."
Comment: Please feel free to tweak the hook, or suggest another. I'd love for this to go up on Christmas Day (or Boxing Day/26th), but appreciate that this might be tricky.
... that at the Allerton 39th Street House(pictured), F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote the short stories "The Jelly-Bean" and "May Day"? Source: Pommer, Alfred; Pommer, Joyce (2013). Exploring Manhattan's Murray Hill. Charleston, SC: The History Press. p. 50.
ALT2: ... that the foreman who laid bricks for the Allerton 39th Street House(pictured) agreed to do so only if his name was not connected the job? Source: Harmon, Arthur Loomis (February 1923). "The Allerton Houses". Architecture. Vol. 47, no. 2. p. 42.
QPQ: - Not done Overall: Created on 12/22, 11778 characters, and all the basics seem to be checked off just fine. I personally find ALT2 most intriguing and ALT0 after that. I also added (pictured) to the hooks—I've only been around the DYK block a few times though so correct me if I did something off there. Just waiting on QPQ now! Bsoyka (talk) 06:32, 26 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I shall review this one. Schwede66 00:29, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Article was moved to mainspace yesterday. Plenty long enough, neutrally written, and well referenced. The one source that shows up with a high percentage on Earwig is fine; what's caused that are titles, quotes, and other unavoidable things. With regards to the hook, "international outcry" is going a bit far. It was the Royal Society of Sculptors in Britain that complained about happenings half a world away; maybe be a bit more specific about who complained and where from, or something along those lines. The image is freely licensed but I suppose I would say that; I see that I uploaded it from Flickr back in 2014 :-) (the photographer is an established Flickr user who's taken heaps of photos of monuments and historic buildings). QPQ has been done. Hence, once we've got an improved hook sorted, this can progress. Schwede66 00:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Comment: I'll keep expanding the article, but it should be in good shape for DYK already. Since the hook's theme is serious, let me know if it needs any rewording or if it needs an ALT hook.
Comment: The link between the six musicians in ALT0 is that they are all in Loud LDN, although I would not be able to include that fact on the front page as I am relying on Loud LDN's website for Ella and Grae being in there.
Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: [23]; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: [24].
Reviewer needed to do a full review, including of the proposed replacement hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Long enough, new enough. No neutrality problems found, no copyright issues found, and I've taken the liberty of unclassifying this as a stub because it clearly isn't one. The Times of India is considered to have a reliability between no consensus and generally unreliable per WP:RSP, and so I'd like to see a better source for any hook.--Launchballer 07:54, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
my apologies for yanking the rug out, but something came up that I thought merited more discussion. Secretlondon, at WP:ERRORS, suggested that the hook reads like ad copy – given that the source is mainly a parroting of the director's Instagram post, I'm inclined towards it having merit. What do y'all think? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
This one got bumped back at errors – ping when issues are resolved :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:36, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
This needs a different reviewer. I won't be signing off on the "oldest Jewish newspaper" claim as I stated above. Somebody else might be happy with the sources. I asked for an ALT hook but nothing's been forthcoming. Schwede66 20:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- n
Good to go. lullabying (talk) 08:54, 27 November 2023 (UTC).svg/20px-Blue_question_mark_(italic).svg.png)
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An interesting article covering the long history of this musical establishment in a balanced way (more coverage of recent history, and something on current operations, would be great, but do not interfere in the DYK consideration). New / submitted in good time, quite long enough, well-sourced but no plagiarism found. Hook fact checked - the whole hook-related section is cited to one good-length article, in Italian, which I have checked. The hook is a little long, but allowing for non-counting of the bolded link and {pictured}, passes. It could be abbreviated, if needed, by mentioning only the name, or the designation "art museum" for the alternative home, but I see why both are desired. The picture is valid and properly used. Best of luck! SeoR (talk) 21:46, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
Seems good to go. AGF on print sources. lullabying (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
@Tintor2 and Lullabying: per WP:DYKCOMPLETE, the article is required to be presentable before an appearance on the main page; however, it is full of spelling, puncutation, and grammar mistakes. The opening paragraph of the body, for example, is near-incomprehensible. Take the first sentence alone:
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Done Đại Việt quốc (talk) 09:18, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
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